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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Tempting to still go for it then... Need one as the main bearing on mine is rattling horribly and sounds like a bag of nails out of gear, and on the move whines a lot.
if the whine changes pitch with wheel speed rather than engine speed then it sounds like worn/damaged bearings or gears on the main shaft or diff.

suppose you could open both gearboxes, check the parts are similar, swap over the better condition input & main shafts and any other less worn bits onto the bell housing with the mechanical speedo
 
if the whine changes pitch with wheel speed rather than engine speed then it sounds like worn/damaged bearings or gears on the main shaft or diff.

suppose you could open both gearboxes, check the parts are similar, swap over the better condition input & main shafts and any other less worn bits onto the bell housing with the mechanical speedo
Sounds like a lot of work, its not as bad in 4th/5th actually but first and second and sometimes third it whines a lot in pitch with the revs more than wheel speed. out of gear and clutch engaged it rattles fairly loudly (mechanic told me thats the main bearing) and clutch open its quiet just some chatter from the engine as normal. Bit annoying as the cars only done 67k miles
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Sounds like a lot of work, its not as bad in 4th/5th actually but first and second and sometimes third it whines a lot in pitch with the revs more than wheel speed. out of gear and clutch engaged it rattles fairly loudly (mechanic told me thats the main bearing) and clutch open its quiet just some chatter from the engine as normal. Bit annoying as the cars only done 67k miles
if the whine pitch changes with revs and gets louder with the level of torque through the box but quiet when the input shaft is stationary (clutch disengaged & in neutral), could be a worn input shaft bearing? (happened with mine once after a long trackday)

if the clutch rattles when engaged (clutch disc spinning) and idling below 750rpm but quiet when above 750rpm and/or clutch disengaged (clutch disc stationary), it could be loose clutch disc springs.
 
the electronic speedo body and the bore is slightly smaller than the mechanical.

if both elec/mech speedo 1.3L gearboxes have similar bits inside (which mine did when I won the turbo kit), then u can convert an electronic speedo box into a mechanical speedo box by:
  • just swapping the bellhousing or
  • get the hole enlarged by machinist to fit the mechanical speedo.
My box was of a 98 facelift (pre-coilpack) with a electronic speedo. The mechanical drive just slotted in no problem
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
to find out the best way to grind the piston rings but maintain a square edge, lets check a few geometries.

I draw a series of concentric circles with a compass and found that an unloaded piston ring is elliptical like this



some guides say squeeze the ends together by hand when checking if their mating faces match angle but this just makes the ring more elliptical when they touch and give a false reading. technically inside a smaller bore, the rings are actually compressed from ALL angles around the ring.



another guide mentions lining the ring against rollers on both sides of the grinding disc and squeeze both ends against the disc. as mentioned above, squeezing the ring at only 2 points makes the ring elliptical and a chance that both ends won't be filed equal amounts



another suggests leaving the ring unloaded but lined up against the rollers on both sides of the disc and just grind one face. even this method doesn't ensure the ends are square to the disc cos the ring isn't round when relaxed.



my idea is to position both rollers on one side of the grinding disc like this and aligned to an imaginary circle that's the same as the bore (71mm dia).
the whole ring maybe elliptical but the smaller section of the ring would be close to the round bore dia therefore use that to square the ends to the disc

 
if the whine pitch changes with revs and gets louder with the level of torque through the box but quiet when the input shaft is stationary (clutch disengaged & in neutral), could be a worn input shaft bearing? (happened with mine once after a long trackday)

if the clutch rattles when engaged (clutch disc spinning) and idling below 750rpm but quiet when above 750rpm and/or clutch disengaged (clutch disc stationary), it could be loose clutch disc springs.
Cheers, i'll check both of those out tomorrow and check the bearings etc when im changing the engine.
My box was of a 98 facelift (pre-coilpack) with a electronic speedo. The mechanical drive just slotted in no problem
Cheers for that info :) i think i'll take the gbox anyway and that way ive got the option of playing with it if it doesnt fit, or if it does then im away happy! depends when the car was made as opposed to registered so i might get lucky :) If not i can always sell it on, 25k is pretty low miles someone will want it.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
was gonna make a ring grinder with the dremel but there's afew issues:
  • the cutting wheel shaft isn't perfectly straight so the disc wobbles
  • the dremel chuck bit isn't centered so the shaft wobbles
  • the original dremel collet chuck might be straighter but have lost it yrs ago. went to b&q and don't sell it.
  • the high speed wobbling disc would make the grinding very difficult and inconsistant.

alternative was to buy a ring grinder but it's at least £68! on ebay.

looking at the pic, its just a friggin hand driven grinding disc with some pivot rollers, how hard can it be to make?

so let's make ourselves a ghetto ring grinder :)

I have here a big diamond cutting disc, pair of metal bushes from a gear selector linkage and the rod from a ratchet clamp which just fits snug in the bush to form the pivot axle.

DSC08164.JPG


remove rod from the clamp

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blowtorch the rod and bend on a vice to form a crank handle

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tap a threaded end

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so here's a pair of bushings which will clamp the cutting disc and the washers on either side keeps it centered.

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enlarge the cutting disc hole

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i could make the housing out of sheet metal but would be alot of hassle, noise, grinding discs.
a block of wood would be easier to do the same job.
so drill a hole parallel to the surface that's the same size as the bushing

DSC08170.JPG


cut a slot along the block for the cutting disc

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and assembled

DSC08172.JPG


no need for a washer on this side cos we'll be pushing the ring against the other side

DSC08173.JPG


disc just clears the slot

DSC08174.JPG


next was thinking of buying some roller bearings for locating the ring but a simple nail will prob do :p
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
made a 71.4mm dia semi-circle paper template of the bore with a compass cutter, lined the flat end with the disc and then hammered the nails at the parameter of the circle. this now represents the walls of the bore

DSC08175.JPG


lined the wood with duck tape for the ring to slide on. this is how the ring sits to be grinded.

DSC08177.JPG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the ring grinding office:cool:

DSC08178.JPG


and this is the process.


check the end gaps at 12oclock & 3oclock in case the bore is oval.
grind tiny amounts off until I reach the target spec end gap. file the swarf off the edge every time.
it's a long aching work but only have one chance to get it perfect
 
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OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
oh yes, the rings are finally gapped to spec. results are:

Cylinder 1
Top Ring
Target gap: 0.3575mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.356mm​
2nd Ring
Target gap: 0.3933mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.406mm woops​
Upper Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.305mm​
3oclock: 0.305mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​
Lower Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.356mm​
3oclock: 0.330mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​

Cylinder 2
Top Ring
Target gap:0.3575mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.356mm​
2nd Ring
Target gap: 0.3933mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​
Upper Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.305mm​
3oclock: 0.305mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​
Lower Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.305mm​
3oclock: 0.305mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​

Cylinder 3
Top Ring
Target gap:0.3575mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.356mm​
2nd Ring
Target gap: 0.3933mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​
Upper Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.330mm​
3oclock: 0.330mm​
End Result: 0.406mm :/​
Lower Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.330mm​
3oclock: 0.330mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​

Cylinder 4
Top Ring
Target gap:0.3575mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.356mm​
2nd Ring
Target gap: 0.3933mm​
12oclock: 0.279mm​
3oclock: 0.279mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​
Upper Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.356mm​
3oclock: 0.356mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​
Lower Oil Ring
Target gap: 0.381mm​
12oclock: 0.356mm​
3oclock: 0.356mm​
End Result: 0.381mm​
next stage is meticulously clean everything and reassemble the forged engine
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok frank I fitted the oil rings,
oiled the bores with 20w50 mineral oil that I'll be bedding the engine with,
install piston and slide it tdc to bdc few times to scrape the excess oil off the walls so it doesn't affect the readings,
pull the piston down from tdc to bdc with a strain gauge and readings are:

with oil oil rings - 3.5kg at tdc and 2.5kg at bdc (dunno if the bores getting looser 1/2 way down or its the excess oil affecting the ring friction)

with all rings fitted - 5kg from tdc to bdc

DSC08179.JPG


bottom end assembled

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timing gear

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new o-rings

DSC08182.JPG


timing cover

DSC08183.JPG


new HG

DSC08185.JPG


cleaned head

DSC08186.JPG


head torqued, awaiting few mins for the 78Nm to mold the HG and then tighten the final torque

DSC08187.JPG
 
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frank

Club Member
my corsa piston engine smoked really bad on the 1st build paul, because the expander rings were,nt pushing the oil control rings against the bores.
so i stretched them and tried again (was far better, but still smoked a bit) then when i checked with the scales they registered about 2kg.
so i stretched them some more till they were at 5kg
i have,nt tried it yet, but have done about 6 of our kart engines since, (with 100% success so far) :)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
my corsa piston engine smoked really bad on the 1st build paul, because the expander rings were,nt pushing the oil control rings against the bores.
so i stretched them and tried again (was far better, but still smoked a bit) then when i checked with the scales they registered about 2kg.
so i stretched them some more till they were at 5kg
i have,nt tried it yet, but have done about 6 of our kart engines since, (with 100% success so far) :)
nice I'll keep that in mind if she throws an oily tantrum again;)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
finally torqued.

a tip & trick for anyone torquing their head/crank bolts

clean & retap all the thread hole & bolts,
smear some general lithium grease under the bolt head and both sides of the washer,
a light coating of engine oil on the bolt threads,

now, the tip is to screw the bolts in & out of the hole by hand at least 3 times to spread the oil throughout the entire thread first so that when you torque them, it'll tighten smoothly without any 'creaking' which could upset the accuracy of the torque sequence.

cams fitted

DSC08188.JPG


pump & chain cover on

DSC08189.JPG


well thats the engine built.

just need to take the stock engine out, swap bits, fit the forged engine and begin the break-in process in this spring weather:cool:
 
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Fantastic job there :) engines soo clean! I'll be referencing your engine builds on here heavily when I rebuild mine! Though there's no spare room here so I'll be having 2 engines apart on my bedroom floor :p
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Fantastic job there :) engines soo clean! I'll be referencing your engine builds on here heavily when I rebuild mine! Though there's no spare room here so I'll be having 2 engines apart on my bedroom floor :p
I know, twas nice to find the machinist had degunked everything squeaky clean, also gotta remember to spray the remachined block to match.
shame that I have to fire her up n gunk everything back up :p

Mmm the great smell of engine degreaser first thing in the morning, smells like victory lol:D
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
drive few miles to warm the oil up, gassing everyone behind with a big ploom especially when setting off. could see all the usual tail gaiters backing off abit, tis quite a nice deterent lol:D

well here's we go once again, drain all fluids and take here apart

DSC08194.JPG


noticed a creamy top on the catch can so removed the filter and oh my. hug load of creamy oil and water vapour rusting the metal. certainly alot of oily water vapour been through here

DSC08195.JPG


and the manifold's pooling with oil and the turbo inlet is quite oily where the catch can feeds back in.
all the signs pretty much point to a cracked ring land with massive blowby forcing crank gasses out the vents and coating everything in oil hence ploom of smoke

DSC08196.JPG


all detached and ready to remove the engine tomorrow

DSC08197.JPG
 
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SirChris

Educated Bodger
drive few miles to warm the oil up, gassing everyone behind with a big ploom especially when setting off. could see all the usual tail gaiters backing off abit, tis quite a nice deterent lol:D

well here's we go once again, drain all fluids and take here apart



noticed a creamy top on the catch can so removed the filter and oh my. hug load of creamy oil and water vapour rusting the metal. certainly alot of oily water vapour been through here



and the manifold's pooling with oil and the turbo inlet is quite oily where the catch can feeds back in.
all the signs pretty much point to a cracked ring land with massive blowby forcing crank gasses out the vents and coating everything in oil hence ploom of smoke



all detached and ready to remove the engine tomorrow

Please don't tell me the forged setup is broken already

signature...please ignore anything I say...when using my phone it is either bad grammar or rubbish spelling.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
haven't even finished building the forged engine yet chris. no this is getting the broken stock engine ready to be yanked out tonight hence assessing the signs of failure.
 

SirChris

Educated Bodger
haven't even finished building the forged engine yet chris. no this is getting the broken stock engine ready to be yanked out tonight hence assessing the signs of failure.
Thank the gods I got upset for you then. I thought it. Was the forged.

signature...please ignore anything I say...when using my phone it is either bad grammar or rubbish spelling.
 

SuluR

Buy & Sell Member
Paul, have you relocated your battery? - cant tell by your recent picture.

If not it might help make these easier when changing engines
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
engine removal been delayed abit cos been very busy at work having higher priority

what's up with ebay these days?
last month i won and paid for another drift x170 camera but seller didn't post it off nor reply..eventually got money back.

and now yesterday I ordered a new catch can filter on ebay for £8.74



but what i got instead was the oil filter mount.

DSC08198.JPG


was gonna think of letting the seller know and post it back But the mount is worth £20, and did prefer to re-do the catch can cos I previously grinded it wrong, plus sending it back for a swap costs another few quid so not worth it.

so I'll just order another filter for £6 and will have a new filter & mount combo for £14.24 worth at least £28:cool:
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
bah the seller who accidentally sent the mount had sent me the correct filter next day but noted if I could either send the mount back (wonder how much the postage could be? or I'm hoping they'll refund the postage) or I could buy the mount at a reduced price (messaged em bout it)

DSC08199.JPG


a filter/mount combo costs £28. I just spent £14.28 on technically 2 filters (least I'll have a spare). if they offer the mount for over £14 I'll just send it back, tisn't essential.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
seller offered the filter mount for £15 delivered, no thx tisn't essential and don't wanna waste precious money during zero income tbh so gonna send back and get the return postage refunded, plus that spare £5.50 filter I'm gonna send back for refund too.

engine removed. finish me cuppa before I take it apart

DSC08200.JPG
DSC08201.JPG
 
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Is it easier to remove just the engine or engine and box together? Heard that thin flange thing can be annoying but also don't wanna disturb too much in doing the swap...
Can't believe how fast you work though, crazy!
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Is it easier to remove just the engine or engine and box together? Heard that thin flange thing can be annoying but also don't wanna disturb too much in doing the swap...
Can't believe how fast you work though, crazy!
my preferences are:
for gearbox work, I leave the engine stuff intact, support LH sump with wood against central beam, unhook drive shaft & stuff attached to the gearbox, support n balance the gearbox with a special hook to the crane, pull away from clutch and lower onto floor.

for upper head work such as HG, valves etc I just take the head off

for lower engine work I remove the whole engine/gearbox out and separate the gearbox outside the car then proceed dissecting the engine

that annoying gearbox splash plate has been long gone yrs ago, not essential

this recent engine issue thing I'm actually progressing at a casual snails pace tbh due to long hours with new job trying to get the new company up n going with minimal pay
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
gearbox n flywheel off

DSC08202.JPG


the new copper ring and new rear main seal has reduced the signs of oil stain in those areas but last time I drive it, I noticed the leak has actually got worse n dripping. now looking closely, dunno if its sprayed from the flywheel (although the fly is dryish) it seems the leak might be where the rear main seal bracket is sealed to the block cos its wet all along it (insufficient sealant?).

DSC08203.JPG
DSC08204.JPG


all outside bits removed

DSC08205.JPG


the welded sump plate doesn't appear to show signs of leakage

DSC08206.JPG
DSC08207.JPG


sump off

DSC08208.JPG


all intact

DSC08209.JPG


so is the oil control setup

DSC08210.JPG
DSC08211.JPG


but look at what the oil strainer had to shield the pump against o_O

DSC08213.JPG


bits of general grease (from crank/head bolts), bits of sealant but worryingly some big bits of metal (appearance n feeling of possibly casted alu, which could be from the broken piston 3 ring land. will answer that whenever I pull it apart)

DSC08214.JPG


rear oil scraper is fine, no damage

DSC08215.JPG
DSC08216.JPG


bottom windage trap door tray removed

DSC08217.JPG


now I can continue finishing the forged engine
 
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Well it still impresses me either way, hope the job goes well too!
All I'm doing is swapping a spare 1.3 in to run while I build a high compression one, so only the clutch and flywheel need to be changed to drop it in. Considering I plan to leave as much as possible in the bay undisturbed to minimise cleanup/replacement of parts I've interfered with, would it be worth taking the box out too to make reassembly of gbox to engine easier or will that mean removing a load of other stuff first to clear the way?
Thanks for the advice already given btw.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Well it still impresses me either way, hope the job goes well too!
All I'm doing is swapping a spare 1.3 in to run while I build a high compression one, so only the clutch and flywheel need to be changed to drop it in. Considering I plan to leave as much as possible in the bay undisturbed to minimise cleanup/replacement of parts I've interfered with, would it be worth taking the box out too to make reassembly of gbox to engine easier or will that mean removing a load of other stuff first to clear the way?
Thanks for the advice already given btw.
taa

last time I tried to separate the gearbox off the engine while keeping everything hooked to the gearbox like what frank would suggest, without a crane, without bending the input shaft and with that friggin splash plate, I remember it was an absolute friggin swearing ball ache.

everyone has their preferable procedures but what I listed in post #3886 is what I found suits me.

so imo,
separating the gearbox while still connected then removing the engine - tricky but doesn't disturb the powertrain

removing the engine/gearbox assembly - few more steps but easier access and tbh the only replacement bit required on the powertrain side are the driveshaft nut splitpins
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
lugged the engine downstairs onto the old sump, old rocker cover, old filter prepping for painting

DSC08218.JPG


masked areas

DSC08219.JPG
DSC08220.JPG


resprayed silver

DSC08221.JPG

DSC08222.JPG


resprayed the new sump too

DSC08223.JPG


once dry it will be laquered
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok laquered.
next task I think is to repaint the crossmember and wipe off the oily bay stains when there's time
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
well block is painted, lets assemble the rest

DSC08224.JPG


oil control setup fitted. one of the lower bolts has stripped a thread but isn't essential so left it out.

DSC08225.JPG


pickup fitted

DSC08226.JPG


sump on

DSC08227.JPG
DSC08228.JPG


and the rest of the bolts n fittings swapped

DSC08229.JPG
DSC08230.JPG


was gonna close the plug holes with some browner old plugs cos the last plugs are all sooted up but to my surprise I discovered I had a new set of bkr6e-11 on the toolbox :) perfect

just need to fit flywheel, crank pulley, clutch, gearbox and seal the rocker cover and that's the engine done
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
flywheel on, crank pulley on

DSC08231.JPG


clutch on

DSC08232.JPG


gearbox on and it's pretty much ready :)

DSC08233.JPG


now lets select the best temperature sensor. got 3 sets to check

DSC08234.JPG


and they're all pretty much bang on so just fit any of them on

DSC08235.JPG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
seems there won't be any updates soon cos i'm snowed under huge amount of workload n network meetings and these super early networking events are tiring me out :/
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Blimey I just realised that ppc is 4 weeks away.

there's soo much to do but so little spare time, No way will she be bedded & setup & ready for any track action that early, I just can't afford to risk it.

So I'll prob just be at the stands watching and itching to go :(
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
last week after sending that oil filter mount back to the ebay seller, who also refunded the postage, I received the other £5.50 filter and tbh for that amount I'll just keep it as a spare

DSC08236.JPG


tday I thought I'd spend abit of time wiping the oil stains off the underside and remove the center beam

DSC08238.JPG


body filler on the rear mount dislodging abit

DSC08239.JPG


knocked the old stuff off, degrease and repacked the rear & gearbox mount with the little filler I had laying about.
can fill the RH mount another time when I get summore filler.
it will prob vibrate like mad but fookit.
if its too much I can always chip the filler back out.

DSC08240.JPG

DSC08241.JPG


also had to treat the crossmember while its all apart.
bolts holding the inside of the headlights to the panel rusted and spinning round again, will have to ziptie from this point now.

DSC08242.JPG


abit of surface rust. gawd i hate rust:rolleyes:

DSC08243.JPG


summore rust on the wing and bonnet to respray

DSC08246.JPG


PPC in 4 weeks is barely possible
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
k I know its too early to say but imho I'm beginning to think I won't be able to finish her in time for PPC cos I just caught a cold of someone yesterday so feel like crap with no energy, got an all-day expo to goto tomorrow with a 5am wakeup, more long hours doing all sorts programming & modelling. this is gonna kill me, wtf am I doin.

so basically no time for car so gonna miss the event unfortunately :oops:
 
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