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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
rebuilt diff

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took top off

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heres the new improved preload washer

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measured the plate thicknesses and starting from the inside ones closest to the pinion gear:

inner 1: 1.55mm
outer 1: 1.55mm
inner 2: 1.53mm
outer 2: 0.95mm
inner 3: 1.55mm
outer 3: 1.11mm
inner 4: 1.75mm
outer 4: 1.90mm

preload washer is 2.6mm thick and the cone shape offset is 1.2mm

looks like the outer 2 plates which were pitted by the broken preload washer has been replaced with thicker new plates

reassembled using red permenant strength threadlock, don't want this coming loose soon

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inside the box

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LSD fitted

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to fit the teflon spacers i applied some sealant to ensure a good seal even if ptfe creeps slightly

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noticed one of the pintle fingers on injector 1 has broken, hope it didn't damage the cylinders

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be glad to when i'm free. will be very busy next few weeks cos of trackdays and fitting the new engine but will let u know when i have space.
what ya need help on? doing minor stuff or a checking over i could pop over to do but major stuff that could require bit of powertools or handwork will have to do at my place
sound....will have to work something out with u.....am up ur end quite a lot with the autotests n autosolos....:)
 
OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
tday fitting the gearbox

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somethings not right with the clutch.
usually with a new thicker clutch the diaphram fingers are further away from the bearing hence the fork arm would have like 4-5cm of free slack.
after bolting up the gearbox the clutch arm only has 1-2mm of slacko_O

took box back out n thought could this spring be preventing the bearing from fully resting back

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trimmed to clear but the bearing was actually able to rest right back towards the gearbox.

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some thing must be out of measurement so i measured between both old & new setup:
engine block to release bearing resting point on gearbox = 10cm same
engine block to flywheel face = 4cm same
flywheel to back of release bearing held against diaphram = 6cm same

so both flywheels, clutches & gearbox are the same distances.
i'll have to crank up the thumbscrew & cable tension in order to raise the bitepoint up but seems the bearing will always be under pressure on the diaphram which can't be good

i tried the clutch and oh my, its impossibly heavy, twice as heavy as the last clutch, i can't drive in traffic with this?!
or maybe i've gotten used to recently driving my moms pug 307 superlight clutch n forgot how heavy mine was?

most things hooked up. tried welding the BOV fitting but made a hash of it n blew few holes that needed patching up, i'm soo crap at welding

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put beads of weld on ends to prevent it blowing off

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only the catch can left to finish tomorrow
 
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baguete

Site Supporter
You must have the same type of heavy clutch i have on the SR, its a bit harsh to ride on the traffic, but i got used to it, just need to be gentle with the bite point. Maybe you can extend the clutch arm to make the pedal more light?

Oh, and i suck at welding too. :mad: Seems that everything that one of us do, the other did it or will do it in the future, maybe we are brothers separated at birth... :D

Good work btw ;)
 

Low Rider

Poindexter
Founding Member
Moderator
Club Member
i tried the clutch and oh my, its impossibly heavy, twice as heavy as the last clutch, i can't drive in traffic with this?!
or maybe i've gotten used to recently driving my moms pug 307 superlight clutch n forgot how heavy mine was?
Any idea what the pressure plate clamp load is? We run a 300kg plate and it's manageable but overall a bit of work in start stop traffic ;)
 

baguete

Site Supporter
I have a Nissan Sentra 1.6 XTD Stage 4 clutch kit, 885kg of clamping force (1950lbs), good for 403Nm (297ft/lbs) and 390hp... lol
 
I'm in hartlepool which is quite far, unless ya wanna drive up here for a checkup

I remove the speedo and check the level is enough to submerge the speedo gear
cheers, if it turns out i need any help i'll maybe set a date. Will try to sort things myself for now as that is quite far!
 

Low Rider

Poindexter
Founding Member
Moderator
Club Member
I have a Nissan Sentra 1.6 XTD Stage 4 clutch kit, 885kg of clamping force (1950lbs), good for 403Nm (297ft/lbs) and 390hp... lol
885kgs of clamp load for 297lb/ft capacity, something not right there. On a 345kg cover were looking at 327lb/ft capacity from our helix 184mm plate.
 
OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
You must have the same type of heavy clutch i have on the SR, its a bit harsh to ride on the traffic, but i got used to it, just need to be gentle with the bite point. Maybe you can extend the clutch arm to make the pedal more light?

Oh, and i suck at welding too. :mad: Seems that everything that one of us do, the other did it or will do it in the future, maybe we are brothers separated at birth... :D

Good work btw ;)
yeah its almost unbearably heavy n real sensitive bitepoint but will take some getting used to.

extending the clutch arm will reduce the release bearing throw distance, which may wear the bearings faster. i'm currently having to tighten the thumbscrew all the way up, which felt really tight, in order to bring the bitepoint upto 1/4 and I'm concerned its putting the release bearing & crank thrust bearing under constant high load.
I've tried removing the clutch pedal stopper bolt to get more pedal stroke but didn't help.

alternatively shortening the clutch arm or lengthening the clutch pedal arm to allow the bearing to travel from zero load to the bitepoint may save the bearings but will NOT save my poor weak left leg from the extreme weight especially during traffic.

it must be true that we're on the same brainwave:D
 
OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
885kgs of clamp load for 297lb/ft capacity, something not right there. On a 345kg cover were looking at 327lb/ft capacity from our helix 184mm plate.
was the 184 plate a full face or pad faced? maybe softer material?
i think cos my 3 paddle helix focuses a higher pressure via small surface area it could get away with a stock light PP which made daily driving bareable but couldn't handle the heat.
a full face organic clutch requires a heavier clamp to achieve the same surface pressure.
a grippier clutch material may require less clamp for the same torque capacity.

maybe this heavy 200mm is abit overkill? but at least it no longer seems be the weakspot now
 

baguete

Site Supporter
885kgs of clamp load for 297lb/ft capacity, something not right there. On a 345kg cover were looking at 327lb/ft capacity from our helix 184mm plate.
Thats what they advertise. o_O

Mine is a 190mm plate/disc for GA16 Sentra, plug&play on stock Micra gearbox, just need to swap for a GA16 flywheel, i have a Fidanza 3,1Kg fly...

yeah its almost unbearably heavy n real sensitive bitepoint but will take some getting used to.

extending the clutch arm will reduce the release bearing throw distance, which may wear the bearings faster. i'm currently having to tighten the thumbscrew all the way up, which felt really tight, in order to bring the bitepoint upto 1/4 and I'm concerned its putting the release bearing & crank thrust bearing under constant high load.
I've tried removing the clutch pedal stopper bolt to get more pedal stroke but didn't help.

alternatively shortening the clutch arm or lengthening the clutch pedal arm to allow the bearing to travel from zero load to the bitepoint may save the bearings but will NOT save my poor weak left leg from the extreme weight especially during traffic.

it must be true that we're on the same brainwave:D
I will try to make a video or something to show you how my clutch acts, its very hard to use. Dont think i have issues about the bearing being always in contact with the plate, but will confirm this in a couple of days. I also have a short-shifter but cant use it properly because of the hard clutch pedal. :eek:

i think cos my 3 paddle helix focuses a higher pressure via small surface area it could get away with a stock light PP which made daily driving bareable but couldn't handle the heat.
a full face organic clutch requires a heavier clamp to achieve the same surface pressure.
a grippier clutch material may require less clamp for the same torque capacity.

maybe this heavy 200mm is abit overkill? but at least it no longer seems be the weakspot now
I have a 190mm 6-paddle disc with springs, less grip than a 3-paddle disc, but i think its enough for what i intend to do. I will install a stock GA16 plate so my left leg can rest a bit. :D
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok yesterday afternoon i finished assembling everything.
started her up, check for leaks, engine blipping response is abit slower due to heavy stock flywheel.
tested the clutch bitepoint and oh my god its soo heavy and the bite range is soo narrow.
drove out the garage round the alley and jee the steerings really heavy during turns cos of the lsd preload. its really fighting to stay straight when you push it.

driving down the road when changing gears its really difficult with hold and gradually release the clutch without a mightly shunt like a learner. its like either on or off.

when i first attempted to push it, she misfired on 1-2 occasions even saw a small poof of smoke, thats not good. was cautious to try again incase it was something serious.
try again next time and twas better n smoother. thinking back i'm guessing maybe it was abit of excess sealant from the teflon spacer that got sucked n burnt?

here's a video of afew runs


doing WOT runs she kinda wheelspins in 1st near the limiter but keeps pulling hard in other gears and now that the clutch & LSD definately holds, its a frightening acceleration. have to hold onto the steering for dear life lol. have to wait for the revs to slowly drop when changing up due to the heavy flywheel inertia.

gearbox won't like me for crunching 3rd gear woops

i'm still loosing 1/2 tank of coolant after several runs. dunno where its leaking or burning from? no signs of big leak or steam other than normal exhaust vapour

checking the inlet mani the teflon spacer definately works cos its barely warm to touch:)
 
OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
forgot to mention.
i mounted the oil filter catch can like this cos the previous riveted jubilee clip was too low and too loose.
the head top was Alu so can't weld SS pipes into it so i tried gluing it with sealant, doesn't hold so will try body filler soon

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frank

Club Member
you guys must be masochistic lol, i,m running @ 1 bar with a 2nd hand stock clutch with the little early 160mm 1.0 pressure plate, and no hint of clutch slip :)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
you guys must be masochistic lol, i,m running @ 1 bar with a 2nd hand stock clutch with the little early 160mm 1.0 pressure plate, and no hint of clutch slip :)
i must've glazed mine since day 1 cos i didn't get the wavy JUN fly surface machined flat like i should and just degraded since the moment it was finally bedded in. the low heat capacity of the thin flywheel & 3 paddle helix didn't help. maybe the PP was too weak too?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
now to fix the catch can port i stuck in 2 pens to keep the port clear

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secured the outer mould

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after several attempts i managed to quickly mix the bodyfiller, stuff it in a syringe and try inject it into the gaps before it sets hard

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cured & removed pen to reveal the port

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secured

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fit the pipes back on

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went ahead making the rear brace. cos of the angle and that i was using square box tube i couldn't easily make an X brace so tis just a cross brace for now

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OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
concerned bout the high cable tension which is essentially riding the clutch and wearing out parts faster, i figure the only way to fix it is to increase the clutch pedal stroke much as possible and shorten the clutch arm(which could make it heavier & more sensitive)

so mark the shorter clutch arm hook point

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cut the notch n fit cable

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i also removed this rubber stopper rest to gain an extra 3mm

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now i can set the cable abit looser and the initial 20mm of pedal travel feels lighter too which is good for the bearings. biting point during gear change still on/off but meh i'll sacrifice comfort for bearing life and live with it :p
 
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frank

Club Member
i fitted an extra spring onto my arm last year paul (valvespring iirc) and it stops the thrust race riding and cured any clutchslip too

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
cheers matey. took it round for a blast and WOT towards the limiter in 2nd is like Yikes:D as i'm pushed back against the seat
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
can't see the pic frank.
if ur adding a spring to help force the arm/bearing away from the diaphram to reduce riding wouldn't it make the pedal heavier?
or if its the opposite and pushing the arm/bearing against the diaphram to lighten the pedal it would worsen the bearing riding & wear?
 

frank

Club Member
cant see the pic paul ? :confused:
its returning the arm, and lifting it off the thrust bearing, and yes it makes the pedal slightly heavier, but it might enable you to lenghten the arm and ease your leg.
but definately cured a slight clutch slip i had (my cable drags a bit and the clutch was,nt engaging fully at the time)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
cant see the pic paul ? :confused:
its returning the arm, and lifting it off the thrust bearing, and yes it makes the pedal slightly heavier, but it might enable you to lenghten the arm and ease your leg.
but definately cured a slight clutch slip i had (my cable drags a bit and the clutch was,nt engaging fully at the time)
nope just see the file name

the main issue here is the required stroke distance from lightly touching the diaphram to the biting point of this 200mm PP is alot more than the original and barely within the parameter of the clutch mechanism. lengthening the clutch arm to lighten the feel would reduce the fork stroke length resulting in either:
-bearing fully unloaded when pedals up but can't reach biting point nor change gear when fully down.
-able to reach biting point & change gear but release & crank bearing always partially loaded and wears out

hence shortening the clutch arm & lengthen pedal travel instead to change the leverage and give more clutch fork stroke
 

frank

Club Member
nope just see the file name
thats odd o_O
but you,re using the same arm geometry tho paul, and the bite should be in the same place surely ? (unless the diaphram is very different)
are you sure its not flexing somewhere ? the rubber, or bracket ? (sam sells strengthened brackets for the mera g/boxes that flex and break when uprated clutches are fitted)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
thats odd o_O
but you,re using the same arm geometry tho paul, and the bite should be in the same place surely ? (unless the diaphram is very different)
are you sure its not flexing somewhere ? the rubber, or bracket ? (sam sells strengthened brackets for the mera g/boxes that flex and break when uprated clutches are fitted)
ah can see the pic on other viewer now, tis a firefox issue.

the clutch arm to clutch fork angle's the same but i now just shortened the clutch arm pivot to cable end distance to increase the swing angle of the fork (like in ur pic) cos this diaphram needs to be pushed in further to reach its bitepoint from full resting point.

looked at the bracket while dad pushed the clutch and it doesn't flex much
 

euro_micra

Matt :)
:) Keep the videos coming. It's like we're in the car with you, pollyp's virtual taxi ride!
Would like to see the camera focused on the dials but with a view out of the windscreen too;)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I dont think i have enough space to do it on a LHD Micra... :eek:
don't need much space, u just twist ur feet abit to nudge the throttle. helps if the height of the brake pedal where it begins to bite and the throttle pedal resting height are the same and the throttle cable has minimal slack for instant response.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
:) Keep the videos coming. It's like we're in the car with you, pollyp's virtual taxi ride!
Would like to see the camera focused on the dials but with a view out of the windscreen too;)
i don't have a cam mount to point it at the dash yet but that'll prob be replaced by the datalog which includes rpm etc
 

Seb_

Give me some frogs.
Site Supporter

The Boosted Subaru Polly shifting edition.

I wasn't aware of this technique, very interesting!

:oops:
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the technique i prefer is kinda more toe & toe blipping. the brake & throttle pedal on this k11 was closer than usual which was gr8 cos i would brake with 1/2 of my toe then roll the ball of my foot over to blip the throttle with the outer part of my toes

abit like senna here
 
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