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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
On the last days i was sanding a head and a block on the mirror (actually several mirrors :wasntme:), i takes so much time... :p

indeed. initially when only afew spots were touching it was sanding down at a nice rapid pace but then as more and more of the surface area touches it exponentially takes soo much longer like its not sanding at all. changing to a fresh courser paper helps but have only so much paper
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
About the clutch bearing, i was going to post a pic today, i have a bearing that looks like that. I tested it on a spare gearbox and seems to be good with the little gap to the diff side, the other way around seems that the bearing rotates a bit when the bearing is pressed against the pressure plate, can you test it also?

ah just watched few clutch install vids on youtube and they have a self-centering feature upon use so it's normal
 

baguete

Site Supporter
indeed. initially when only afew spots were touching it was sanding down at a nice rapid pace but then as more and more of the surface area touches it exponentially takes soo much longer like its not sanding at all. changing to a fresh courser paper helps but have only so much paper

I've used sand to quickly remove more metal from the head, then coarse valve grind on both head and block, and at last fine valve grind to smooth the surfaces, looks good to me. :laugh:

And yeah, more surface area means more time... :doh:

ah just watched few clutch install vids on youtube and they have a self-centering feature upon use so it's normal

Really? Didnt knew that... Can you move it by hand?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
started her up this morning but whilst checking around there was an electrical burning smell, little smoke, and sounds of occasional arcing. looked down and the alternator is so close to the turbo elbow that is shorting out maybe cos sanding the manifold flange has moved the turbo up a fraction.
immediately turned it off and tried to nudge the alternator up abit to clear it, can't move too much cos oil feed is above it but is an issue that i needa fix.

DSC05801.JPG


alternator belt also needs tightening more. finish it off tonight
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
cut a slot between the bolt holes

DSC05802.JPG


so now i can lock the alternator in any angle till it clears the exhaust & oil feed

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went for a test run. manifold paint lightly smoking for few secs. after driving a slow jelly pug 307 took a moment to adjust back to the responsive clutch n throttle.
no oil leaks at all from the oil return pipe now:grinning:
turbo certainly spools up abit quicker when the solenoids engaged at WOT. can still hear a very faint hiss when at 10psi, doesn't affect boost though.

job done i say(Y)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
right, now go and crank it up to 15psi!!!:grinning:

Not before i fit the forged engine and prob needs remap when adding more boost. Stick to 10psi for now till i know the cooling system and IC are performing enough on track before considering more boost
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
research into making my own IC plumbing from mild steel pipes

IC plumbing.jpg


I'll need:

50mm dia pipe x 220mm £10
http://www.wlcooke.co.uk/Cat/product_info.php?products_id=15807

50mm dia 90deg bend £17
http://merlinmotorsport.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=10726 &utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ShoppingUK&utm_campaign=ShoppingUK

tight90.jpg


63-50mm reducer £6
http://www.carnoisseurdirect.com/e-tech-6-step-exhaust-pipe-reducer-34865-p.asp



63mm dia 90deg bend x 3 £44
http://merlinmotorsport.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=10727 &utm_source=Google&utm_medium=ShoppingUK&utm_campaign=ShoppingUK

63mm dia pipe x 590mm £29
https://www.europaspares.com/product/0/16802/MILD_STEEL_EXHAUST_PIPE.html

63mm dia 45deg bend £16
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/universal-exhaust-parts/jetex-exhaust-bend

can't find a 65mm (2.55") 90deg bend for the TB

overall the raw materials cost bout £122

prob cheaper than gettin an exhaust place to make a seamless IC pipe eh?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
gonna need alot of practice butt welding some mild steel pipes with my stick welder without simply burning the edges off.
will prob never use the meter of 60mm steel pipe i have in garage so will use that for practice.

frank ur the expert with welding. do i turn the welder all the way down enough to just penetrate, first tack the pipe butt welds in place at several points and then just keep tacking it all round at 1sec intervals (weld 1sec cool 1sec to keep heat down) till its all sealed?

or just tack it and lay a continuous bead at very low setting but risk burning through?
 

frank

Club Member
gonna need alot of practice butt welding some mild steel pipes with my stick welder without simply burning the edges off.
will prob never use the meter of 60mm steel pipe i have in garage so will use that for practice.

its a lot easier to overlap/sleeve the joints eh paul, if not i usually weld a 5mm stitch, then let it cool for a few secs, then do another 5mm etc.
and most tyre and exhaust fitters keep various bends and short lengths eh :)
 

frank

Club Member
or just tack it and lay a continuous bead at very low setting but risk burning through?

i usually do a run at a low setting and thin rod, then grind it flat and do a continous run at a higher setting and thicker rod paul :)
 
have you calculate the weight?? looks heavy to me.
admittedly alu would be a bit more expensive, but gives much better heat disaperation (i hear) and would weight a fraction of mild..
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
frank:
can only cut & butt weld the same dia pipe cos pipes dont have overlap nor could i create it.
hmm haven't checked out any exhaust places for bits, will ring for quotes
so i'll need to buy some thin rods?

noddie: don't mind the weight, per section can't be as heavy as the IC, long as it seals.
heard alu is nightmare to weld plus don't have a tig to weld em.
and cost matters, not paying extra for stainless or alu
 

Low Rider

Poindexter
Founding Member
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A typical 16g 6000 grade alu tube wouldn't be much different to a bog standard S235 CS tube to be honest, the only issue however would be welding it, Alu is an arse compared to CS. CS is cheap and easier to work with, but will require attention to corrosion protection.

Looks like another interesting project pollyp and a nice alternative to popping off pipes, especially if you are going to up boostage on the new engine ;)
 

frank

Club Member
frank:
can only cut & butt weld the same dia pipe cos pipes dont have overlap nor could i create it.
hmm haven't checked out any exhaust places for bits, will ring for quotes
so i'll need to buy some thin rods?

noddie: don't mind the weight, per section can't be as heavy as the IC, long as it seals.
heard alu is nightmare to weld plus don't have a tig to weld em.
and cost matters, not paying extra for stainless or alu

i meant pick bends that slip over the straights tbh paul, and i tend to use 2.5mm rods @50a for finer work, and 3mm rods @80a (full) for thicker stuff or overwelding
 

Guy

Has gone over to the oily side...
Club Member
You could try a 2mm rod with 50-60 amps Paul. You and Frank are both right though, practise on offcuts and experiment with amperage and travel speed until you find the optimum settings :).
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
A typical 16g 6000 grade alu tube wouldn't be much different to a bog standard S235 CS tube to be honest, the only issue however would be welding it, Alu is an arse compared to CS. CS is cheap and easier to work with, but will require attention to corrosion protection.

Looks like another interesting project pollyp and a nice alternative to popping off pipes, especially if you are going to up boostage on the new engine ;)

alu not possible and the turbo to IC pipe will be exposed to road spray down there so dunno if just painting laquering CS will hold.

making this one-piece IC piping is a must for this much boost and especially on hot trackdays as i found
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
those tight radius bends i found don't have much straight overhang to slip over a smaller pipe
the larger radius type bends only have a sleeve on one end

i think this mild steel rod i use is 2.5mm
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
You could try a 2mm rod with 50-60 amps Paul. You and Frank are both right though, practise on offcuts and experiment with amperage and travel speed until you find the optimum settings :).

yep i'ma practice with what i got first
 

Guy

Has gone over to the oily side...
Club Member
They should both work but tighten the roller in TINY increments to prevent the cuts ends being radiused inwards :).
 
hey mate, whats wrong with your old IC piping? Everyone has got it and it seems to work. I really think the steel setup gonna be heavy and gonna need some sort of support brackets etc. I actually admire that you are willing to go through so much hassle

edit. I noticed you are running auto rad. good idea but how much more coolant does it actually hold? I know it also works as transmission cooler. thx
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
Have a spy on ebay and the like (metal fab places always have offcuts)...i bought roughly a 6 feet length of stainless for super cheaps. That did my whole system from SC outlet to TB. (still got some left now).

Oh and i used a laser line and a junior hacksaw to cut them (takes some time but is free haha)

I cant remember which site i was on ages ago but you could buy everything you needed. It might be this site (if they've upadated the design) : www.exhaustpartsuk.com or a site similar to this.
 
iv used jetex before, they seemed pretty good. what about going for stainless paul? you can get stainless rods for your inverter right? do they work well with stainless frank??
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
They should both work but tighten the roller in TINY increments to prevent the cuts ends being radiused inwards :).

noted. think i'll get the draper exhaust tool

hey mate, whats wrong with your old IC piping? Everyone has got it and it seems to work. I really think the steel setup gonna be heavy and gonna need some sort of support brackets etc. I actually admire that you are willing to go through so much hassle

edit. I noticed you are running auto rad. good idea but how much more coolant does it actually hold? I know it also works as transmission cooler. thx

the old silicone bends & straight tubes have a tendency to pop off surprisingly during such high boost and especially when it gets hot during trackdays, i experienced both, plus some of the joins are not even matched and had to really tighten the clamp but causes gaps (65mm elbow over 63mm tube).

i need something more solid n permenant now that the layout route is sorted

think the longest bit from IC to MAF is bout the weight of a meter of steel pipe and picking up my meter of pipe its not too bad. it will be ziptied to the front chassis panel just like the silicone one.

the auto rad is 10cm thicker. when i filled the new rad with the exact coolant i'd drained out, I had to add bout another 500ml.

the tranny cooler, as frank posted earlier, is just a small tube at bottom of the rad so not impeding the rads thicker core. anyway this rad will def be better than the old one

Have a spy on ebay and the like (metal fab places always have offcuts)...i bought roughly a 6 feet length of stainless for super cheaps. That did my whole system from SC outlet to TB. (still got some left now).

Oh and i used a laser line and a junior hacksaw to cut them (takes some time but is free haha)

I cant remember which site i was on ages ago but you could buy everything you needed. It might be this site (if they've upadated the design) : www.exhaustpartsuk.com or a site similar to this.

the posted links are the cheapest mild steel bits i found upto now. SS has more choices though

laser guided hacksaw lol. when i was doin product design in me prev company we developed a laser guided wood handsaw for spear jackson, was sold in B&Q for a short time and was real handy for compound cuts(Y)

was gonna buy the 1m tubes from that site but Europaspares was cheaper cos they sell 1/2metre pipes which is all i need
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
iv used jetex before, they seemed pretty good. what about going for stainless paul? you can get stainless rods for your inverter right? do they work well with stainless frank??

i'll check jetex. stainless is abit of a luxury, i'll recalc how much more it is. I do have abit of SS rods here, never tried em though
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok correction, the mild steel stick rods i have are 1.5mm

here's how tdays test went

hacksawed afew sections from me 60mm dia 2mm thick mild steel pipe in garage

DSC05805.JPG


first tested penetration at welder setting for 1.7mm

DSC05806.JPG
DSC05807.JPG


then at 1.5mm setting, good even penetration

DSC05808.JPG
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tacked two pieces

DSC05810.JPG
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lay down first 2cm run, goes real good, or beginners luck?

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continued laying short beads to get this and then at the last moment it burns through.

i found if i move along too slow or weld longer than 2cm, heat & metal will build up on the other side and gravity pulls the heavier blob through.
too fast and it looks splotched with no penetration.
if there's a gap between the two pipes the molton blob is likely to drop through
if the gap between the pipe is perfect n tight, its more likely to achieve a good weld shown above.

DSC05815.JPG
DSC05816.JPG


prolonged heat is making it burn through and need a more consistant heat management technique.
so i tacked the next piece and continued tacking it in 1/2sec pulses to keep heat low (push in to weld a blob, release to cool and move to next spot, repeat)
much more consistant and not too much penetrating blob on the other side

DSC05817.JPG
DSC05818.JPG


continued tacking till all the gaps r filled

DSC05819.JPG
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grinded flat

DSC05823.JPG


painted and it looks seamless. tested join by wacking with hammer and its solid(Y)
found my ideal technique

DSC05826.JPG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
iv used jetex before, they seemed pretty good. what about going for stainless paul? you can get stainless rods for your inverter right? do they work well with stainless frank??

ah fantastic, Jetex has bout everything i need and most bits are cheaper too(Y) cheers Ed
 

frank

Club Member
looks really good to me paul (Y)
you get different flowrates when welding uphill and downhill too eh, the molten flux will chase after you going downhill but it gives a mega neat weld i find
 

frank

Club Member
you can get stainless rods for your inverter right? do they work well with stainless frank??

i hav,nt tried my stainless rods yet ed, i welded the 3rd ss silencer into my system with mild steel rods (out of sight and the fat weld slug wont rust away eh)
i,ll probs use them for something blingy in the engine bay (boost pipes maybe :wasntme:)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

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From Jetex
https://www.jetex.co.uk/jetex/store/index.php?_a=viewCat&catId=32

Mild steel

50 dia 90deg tight bend £7.88
50 dia pipe 1/2m £7.34
50-63 reducer £7.47
63 dia pipe 1m £14.66
63 dia 90deg bend x 3 £33.63
63 dia 45deg bend £9.79

delivery £6.50

subtotal & vat = £104.72:grinning:

Stainless

50 dia 90deg tight bend £12.37
50 dia pipe 1/2m £12.42
50-63 reducer £9.97
63 dia pipe 1m £27.35
63 dia 90deg bend x 3 £46.17
63 dia 45deg bend £13.63

delivery £6.50

subtotal & vat = £154.10
ah not too bad(Y)

need to buy more SS rods though
 
Looking good paul, plenty of penertration there eh. make some way of testing for air coming out when you're done eh (pump and a bath full of water or something).. temped to copy you now.

ss has gonna be worth it imo...
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Looking good paul, plenty of penertration there eh. make some way of testing for air coming out when you're done eh (pump and a bath full of water or something).. temped to copy you now.

ss has gonna be worth it imo...

If theres any pinholes when i grind it back i could just keep touching it up till it all looks solid once grinded. SS certainly looks feasible
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I wouldnt just rely on appearance, pinholes can be covered up when your grinding:)

a tiny pinholes not gonna majorly affect the 10psi that much is it compared to a mis-sized silicone elbow?
but K i'll try bung it in water to test after welding n grinding.
how do i make an end bung with tyre valve to fit on the pipe easily? expanding foam? ducktape? wooden block? or a massive sink plug?
 
I would use a spare bit of pipe with some plate welded over one end (one for each end). then in one of them drill a hole to fit a car/bike valve. then use silicone hose that you already have to mount them to each end of the piece you are testing. that way you can pump it up to pressure, and dump it in the bath :D
 

Guy

Has gone over to the oily side...
Club Member
Spotting is a technique used by MIG welders sometimes on thin sheet. A row of alternating dots and then dots between the original dots will give a complete seam - nice job Paul (Y).
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I would use a spare bit of pipe with some plate welded over one end (one for each end). then in one of them drill a hole to fit a car/bike valve. then use silicone hose that you already have to mount them to each end of the piece you are testing. that way you can pump it up to pressure, and dump it in the bath :D

ah of course use the old silicone couplers, didn't think of that. or maybe i could non-destructively hot glue any plate on the end without any welding then tap a valve into it? so many ways to do it i guess:grinning:
 
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