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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
was going to pub with m8s so just fitted n tried it out afterwards

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at the setting where the bike pump was reading 10psi, the boost actually went way towards 15psi+
so ended up unscrewing it 3/4 turns till the boost peaks at 12psi then drops to a steady 10psi. i think this peak dip is due to the extra length of the WG pipe which is causing a delayed WG response. so tomorrow i'll trim the pipe to the original length and retune the controller.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok i shortened the piping and adjusted the valve till it peaks at 10psi and the boost spike issue has improved but after several pulls i think the glazed clutch is unable to handle anymore heat and begins to slip when i hit 10psi especially in 1/2nd gear at peak torque. tis barely noticable if boost response has improved cos it doesn't boost till 3k, prob only pushing the turbo at 40% capacity and i'm hardly taking advantage of the controller by setting it the same psi as the actuator. maybe with the forged engine when i'm tempted for 15-20psi would i see improvement.
hmm can't remember how much WG preload i put, what if i tightened it few more turns to see if there's any WG creep?

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok with the boost now at 10psi i just took off the boost controller to check what pressure its actually holding back and its Zero? i could just blow through it and hear it hiss and hear the ball valve rattle abit when i shake itfwn

so currently i think the actuator springrate & preload is too strong cos it needs all the feed from the turbo with no restriction from the controller in order to maintain 10psi.
ah i got it, a manual ball valve boost controller is actually ADDING more boost on top of the 10psi required to open the WG enough at that boost pressure.

so say i set the controller with the pump to start opening at 5psi, the ball valve & WG stays closed upto 5psi so the turbo is spooling up as fast as it can upto that point.
after 5psi it begins to progressively relieve the excess boost into the actuator and it begins to open. but the actuator needs an extra 10psi to open the WG enough to maintain the original 10psi.
by the time the actuator has received 10psi and opened enough for 10psi, the turbo's actually making 15psi at that point so it opens more till it balances at say 17psi.
so the first 5psi would spool rapidly but from 10-17psi the boost would just spool with a normal boost curve.

in order to turn up the boost controller close as possible to 10psi so the WG stays shut for as long as possible before opening to maintain 10psi (and so make full advantage of the controller) i'll prob need a softer springrate so the WG is more sensative (WG opens more for every psi of pressure) to the low excess pressures sent from the controller as it nears 10psi but hard enough to prevent the WG from fully opening at 10psi (otherwise beyond 10psi the maxed out WG won't be able to control it) and yet enough preload to keep the WG shut upto 10psi.

or alternatively i woulda prefered a more sudden boost control.
what i mean is to block off the actuator till it reaches 10psi before suddenly allowing the boost to reach the actuator and let it control & maintain boost.
what i need is some sort of Bi-stable pressure switch so below 10psi the valves fully shut and above 10psi the valves fully open.
i know it could be done electronically but is there a mechanical bi-stable pressure relief valve out there?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
abit of googling shows that i'm looking for some sort of high lift pressure safety valve that opens fully when it goes above a determined pressure

 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
but i think it would be a more efficient, quicker & non-restrictive system if i just do it electronically by fitting a pressure sensor to the inlet manifold, a small solenoid valve on the WG line and a simple electronic controller (buy or DIY) that just turns the valve fully on above 10psi.
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
Should be do-able, i did have a vac switch fitted to the inlet where the brake booster plumbs into (was used as the inital switch on point for the sc). Its just a sprung ball bearing with pressure adjustment after the set amount it allows power to flow through the switch.

You'd just need a +ve pressure type switch.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Should be do-able, i did have a vac switch fitted to the inlet where the brake booster plumbs into (was used as the inital switch on point for the sc). Its just a sprung ball bearing with pressure adjustment after the set amount it allows power to flow through the switch.

You'd just need a +ve pressure type switch.
ahh fantastic & simpler controller solution, thanks kris :grinning:

i'll look for a boost control solenoid off a turbo in scrappy then an adjustable pressure switch(Y)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
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solarice

Ex. Club Member
Haha no worries, yeah £28 :eek: ...maybe give them an email see if you can get the shipping way down?. Or atleast use it to try and find a cheaper type :)

and i never even thought about your old one being normally closed :doh: woulda saved you opening it up.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Haha no worries, yeah £28 :eek: ...maybe give them an email see if you can get the shipping way down?. Or atleast use it to try and find a cheaper type :)

and i never even thought about your old one being normally closed :doh: woulda saved you opening it up.
the oil gauge sensor wouldn't work here cos its just a variable resister but had to open it anyway:p
the boiler air pressure switches were prob not meant for 10psi+ so will leave that

next I need a 12v solenoid valve that
A: vents the actuator to atmosphere and shuts the boost source then
B: connects the boost source to the actuator

i'm thinking as a failsafe the solenoid should normally be in state B so there's always boost control incase power was cut. using a "normally closed" pressure switch instead, when IGN is on and manifold pressure is below 10psi the solenoid is in state A. when boost reaches 10psi it goes to state B to control boost.

soo since i need a normally closed pressure switch maybe i could use that £24 adjustable oil pressure switch, although it doesn't say it could be set down to 10psi, the more expensive £28 PVL switch that i could specify might be a better choice.
just need to find the right solenoid.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
found all the oem boost control solenoids work the same. they're normally shut so the WG is connected to the boost source. when energised the opened valve allows +ve boost & any pressure in the actuator to leak easily into atmosphere so the actuator spring can shut the WG
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
found a diagram

below 10psi the solenoid opens to keep WG shut and build boost asap

2wotbelowboost.jpg


at almost 10psi it closes allowing the WG to control boost

3wotatboost.jpg
 
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frank

Club Member
you get spiking and fluctuation with that setup tho dont you paul ?
my boost seemed to depend on how much throttle i gave it, 1/2 throttle sat @ 10psi, and WOT went way past 20psi lol
cant you fit a restrictor and leakoff in your actuator pipe to stop the creep/spikes ? (eg carb jet)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
you get spiking and fluctuation with that setup tho dont you paul ?
my boost seemed to depend on how much throttle i gave it, 1/2 throttle sat @ 10psi, and WOT went way past 20psi lol
cant you fit a restrictor and leakoff in your actuator pipe to stop the creep/spikes ? (eg carb jet)
i'll prob be setting the pressure switch to trigger at 8-9psi to give the actuator time to react so above 9psi the WG just works as normal.
but further thinking about when i'm slowly coming down from 10psi or hold it near 9psi, yeah it may fluctuate when it drops below 9psi, solenoid opens, WG begins to spring shut, turbo speeds up above 9psi, solenoid closes, WG begins to open, boost drops and so on. just guessing and won't know till i try

the spikes u were getting was cos ur WG system was working backwards

restricting or lengthening the actuator pipe actually induces boost spike cos the WG hasn't received pressure in time to react fast enough. u fix spikes by letting pressure reach the actuator quickly (short unrestricted lines) before it reaches the ideal boost
 

frank

Club Member
the restrictor/damper and bleed-off prevent the w/g from opening prematurely surely paul ? so that the actuator spring works when it should.
then the amount of boost will depend on how much throttle you apply ?
how about porting the w/g valve ? (i intend to :))
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
just as i found out with the ball valve and prob with bleed valve boost controllers, no, all they do is keep the WG shut upto the amount of psi u set it to open at (ie start to open at 5psi, which is negligable cos 0-5psi is below the boost threshold) but from 5-15psi (the extra 10psi of the actuator spring) the actuator responds at almost the same rate as before

porting the WG port too much may make it more sensative and harder to maintain smooth boost where too much exhaust is wasted per psi of boost increase. prob only enlarge the port if ur getting boost creep from overloaded WG

just read this Subaru boost control article which might be useful

http://www.scribd.com/doc/104227/How-Subarus-Factory-Boost-Control-System-Works-v11-01
 

frank

Club Member
there seems to be a lot of conflicting info on (non ecu controlled) boost controllers imo, most seem to fit them in order to run extra boost, and end up with spiking and fluctuating levels fwn.
my understanding is that the damper/restictor and bleed cut the surge down the actuator pipe and chamber (like a suspension damper stops bottoming out and bounce/patter) so that the 10psi spring opens @ near 10psi, and is,nt jerked open prematurely
i,ll have to see how mine pans out i guess
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
there seems to be a lot of conflicting info on (non ecu controlled) boost controllers imo, most seem to fit them in order to run extra boost, and end up with spiking and fluctuating levels fwn.
my understanding is that the damper/restictor and bleed cut the surge down the actuator pipe and chamber (like a suspension damper stops bottoming out and bounce/patter) so that the 10psi spring opens @ near 10psi, and is,nt jerked open prematurely
i,ll have to see how mine pans out i guess
ppl who fit manual boost controllers set at much higher pressures than the actuators mechanical pressure might be spiking & fluctuate due to excessively long actuator pipe lengths and the higher pressures with weaker actuator springs makes the WG more sensitive when it does open.

aye suddenly opening the WG faster than its natural frequency could as u say cause the spring to oscillate and fluctuate towards opening/closing

not sure bout the restrictor on the actuator line. i think of the WG/actuator operating together like when trying to countersteer a drift, you need just the right amount of reaction at the right time to keep it balanced smoothly as u reached the target drift angle/boost pressure. adding a restrictor to delay the amount of reaction could cause it to fishtail/fluctuate
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Ah got an idea, i only activate the solenoid system when i floor it via kickdown switch, reach 9psi the solenoid valve closes and wg controls boost.

When i'm off WOT the solenoid shuts and wg works as norm therefore no fluctuations
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
diagram to illustrate

to start with, i'm off boost with partial throttle, boost solenoid naturally closed so WG is connected to boost source

1partialbelowboost.jpg


step on full throttle, boost is still below 9psi so the naturally closed pressure switch completes the circuit, solenoid opens allowing any pressure from the boost source to leak straight out and so the WG stays fully shut under the preloaded actuator spring. turbo boost pressure builds up as fast as possible

2wotbelowboost.jpg


once boost goes above 9psi the pressure switch deactivates the solenoid allowing boost pressure to reach the actuator, opening the WG to control boost before it reaches and maintains 10psi

3wotatboost.jpg


when lifting, the WOT switch disconnects but solenoid was off anyway and actuator is still connected to the boost source. so lifting from full boost will be the same reaction as before
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the solenoid i need are sometimes called vacuum solenoids (cheaper) or boost control solenoids. prob cheaper to pick one out from scrappies
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
changing lsd oil the 2nd time, plug has less fragments

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oils still golden but has bit of mirky left over residue. filled with clean oil now

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drove to me cousin yesterday to pick up the machined engine & spare block. 6hour drive each way, my bum and neck are aching like mad

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oops he left the crankcase mesh in the spare block, meh gonna take the machined engine apart anyway. spare engine has been reassembled from engine bits laying all round the garage. only took 4hours and now i have space again

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machined forged engine. he said the machinest had balanced the whole thing at 16k rpm within 0.001g! will never ever reach that rpm but its making sure lol :) it should rev alot smoother and readily

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clutch

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alignment marks. edge of the PP was shaved cos it was close to the starter ring

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balancing holes on fly

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machined flywheel for the 200mm PP

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helix 200mm clutch

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some resin and organic furr exposed

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helix 200mm PP

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this bits been grinded, prob to miss the starter

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this bits unusually rivited on

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close look at the diaphram mechanism

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big clutch on flywheel

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resume disassembly in few days but for now i'm busy driving to scotland tomorrow, new years on weekend and news that my m8 has destroyed his Megane diesel (oil was pure sludge and rings have gone) means that i'm gonna look for a micra for him in few days, introduce him to the micra scene :)

saw few good ones in autotrader. his budget is £1k max, cheaper the better cos he's skint. i'm mainly focusing on the torquier 1.3, preferably preface and saw afew slx & sr's from £500-990
 
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Stani1029

Club Member
glen on here is selling a blue 1.0ltr, m reg i think, just passed mot recently and has had a full reweld, think its pretty mint :grinning:
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
finished a spreadsheet for m8 listing all the 1.3 manual petrol micras. did one for 1.0L but that went on for 15pages so limited that upto £700



now summore disassembly. crank pulley off, two balancing marks. The lip of the pulleys been dinged from being dropped and needs abit of dremelin so it doesn't foul the alternator belt, won't hurt the balance much

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sump off and can see a shiny grinded crank end on #4

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head off and a lovely skimmed head. valves n top needs some decoking

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and phwoaaa havin a male crisis :p almost forgot that the spare block i gave to be machined was a closed deck auto, pleasant surprise. should help withstand boost pressures abit

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timing cover off

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some bathroom sealant in oil port tut tut

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see the hone marks here. the very lightly oiled walls had some dusty fluff so wiped it off with wd40 on clean cloth


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so shiny n lovely

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
was just searchin on racing alu rad for the k11 and saw these, am I seeing this correctly?

at this trading site u can order an alloy racing rad for a 95 manual micra, made in china, minimum order of 10 for $50 US each? (£32?)fwn
http://uk.alibaba.com/product/466537274-high-performance-alloy-aluminum-auto-and.html



Or, this polished alloy race version rad measuring 378 X 358 X 40 for a 98-02 March for FREE lol:laugh: must be a booboo typo
http://fenixautopart.com/products_list.asp?selectclassid=002004016&keyword=MARCH
 

gtsnissanb

Official MSC Trader
was just searchin on racing alu rad for the k11 and saw these, am I seeing this correctly?

at this trading site u can order an alloy racing rad for a 95 manual micra, made in china, minimum order of 10 for $50 US each? (£32?)fwn
http://uk.alibaba.com/product/466537274-high-performance-alloy-aluminum-auto-and.html



Or, this polished alloy race version rad measuring 378 X 358 X 40 for a 98-02 March for FREE lol:laugh: must be a booboo typo
http://fenixautopart.com/products_list.asp?selectclassid=002004016&keyword=MARCH
Get it ordered man! I'm sure they have to honour it if it's in the uK under the sales of goods act
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Get it ordered man! I'm sure they have to honour it if it's in the uK under the sales of goods act
They're not in uk n i feel the 2nd one would prob see the error n slap a big pricetag on my card. All sounds too good to be true tbh

Then add shippin n custom tax over it all
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Looks like a typo cos the alloy race rad for a 2002 up micra k12 is $480 aus (£312). With tax it'll be same as the £500 custom rad
 

Antony

Ex. Club Member
They're not in uk n i feel the 2nd one would prob see the error n slap a big pricetag on my card. All sounds too good to be true tbh

Then add shippin n custom tax over it all
all traders have upto 24hrs to remove the item from sale or change the price at the point of sale. they do not have to sell it to you. infact they dont have to sell you anything..
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
bzzzz:laugh:

picked up the coolant return pipe o-ring

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genuine HG

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got this 20w50 mineral oil that me cousin suggested for 500miles of bedding in the new engine, is ok aint it?

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the oils green :p won't be too thick eh

taken crank off

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bracket off

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so heres the balanced crank

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this sharp edge wont be good so filed the lip abit

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cleaned the crank cage bolts

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fit timing chain

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bottom end built

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now the head needs some decoking

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
all valves removed

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to prevent the skimmed face from touching the bottom of the tub n scratchin it I tapped n screwed bolts into some holes to perch it up

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one scoop of persil to a tub of boiling hot water

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scrub scrub scrub

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rinse

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dry

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and now to wirebrush some of the harder soot off the head & exhaust port
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
valves scraped clean

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then comes the tedious job of fitting the ####in fiddly collets.
I officially hate collets!

on the 3rd valve i dropped a collet, off the table bounced on floor and tis guaranteed to be lost :doh: FFS
i turned the friggin garage floor upside down lookin at each atom. at moment of dispair i thought i'd try the box of bolts that was originally on the floor nearby and FFFFFS it was in there grr

time to take a break and remember to never fit collets from a table high up, do it on the floor instead
 
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