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PollyMobiles Rebuild

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i looked inside the inlet ports and no sign of leaking inlet valve stem seals. drained some oil till its at 3/4.
started her cold and still no good. first 15sec the exhaust is clear, then the blue mist slowly builds till its a mix of blue mist n steam, garage is full of blue mist for 3mins then it becomes a white steamy mist of water from the cat.

i'm at a loss here. once again something in the engine has gone wrong and burning oil before ed tunes it, not ideal.

i tried uploading the stock map with the turbo MAF & injectors and it idles lean n lumpy at 15.8afr but revs 3k at round 14.7 with help of the o2 sensor
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
turbine seal? how do i find out? maybe take the gtir elbow off n see if the turbine is damp?

i doesn't smoke from cranking to 15secs, so its not pooling oil. nor smoke at all under full power or vac or idle once the exhausts heated up.
it just seems like the oils too thin when cold like when i was using the 5w50 on her.
should another flush with new 10w40 maybe get rid of the old 5w50 incase some remained?
 

martinb

Ex. Club Member
Blue smokes not good, pull the air filter off and check for play in the turbo

I guess it's not smoking for first 15 as engines not hot enough to get oil to turbo seals to start leaking

Me personally I'd stick with 10w 40w as that's what it was designed for by nissan

I bet as much as you love your turbo do you sometimes get the hump and think if the convenience of NA?
 

Stani1029

Club Member
If you remove the turbo from the exhaust and run the engine to see if the smoke comes from the ports then that rules out the turbo, also check the oil drain is free from blockages
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Blue smokes not good, pull the air filter off and check for play in the turbo

I guess it's not smoking for first 15 as engines not hot enough to get oil to turbo seals to start leaking

Me personally I'd stick with 10w 40w as that's what it was designed for by nissan

I bet as much as you love your turbo do you sometimes get the hump and think if the convenience of NA?

gonna check for play in abit

yeah it takes afew secs to build enough oil pressure to the turbo

anything other than stock exhaust is bound to cause an issue. just gotta stick at it
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
If you remove the turbo from the exhaust and run the engine to see if the smoke comes from the ports then that rules out the turbo, also check the oil drain is free from blockages

neighbours won't be impressed at the noise of running without a manifold :/

would a blocked turbo drain not cause it to smoke when warm and at high load/vac too?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
daren't risk it. i'll just loosen the filter to let the trapped oil out.

stani i think ur right.
while draining i saw this

DSC05308.JPG


apart from the bad drain seal i prev tried to fix with several copper washers, the turbine housing now has an oil leak which could be a damaged turbine seal = turbo overhaul:down: and would explain the burning smoke n smell from the engine bay this morning and maybe the awful emissions?

i doubt i could get the turbo rebuild kit in time so a thicker oil is my only option. unless someone knows where i can physically buy the kit to fit before monday?
hang on i found a kit on ebay for £45, txting them if i could pay & collect the kit if i drive over fri night after work

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120776948612

or blackpool

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Turbo-Reb...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item5adec29f80
 
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OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
changed to 15w40 last night. this morning same story.
start engine and clear for 5sec, then theres steam for 15sec which turns to blue'ish steam that hangs about for 1min then back to white steam, maybe its the pool of residue left from the 10w40. driving down road still has a burning oil smell when stationary from the burnt residue on the turbo casing.

driving to work might've burnt off the last residue. if the thicker oil has worked it shouldn't smoke as much when i restart her this lunchtime.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
still smoking from cold.

tried to drive over to blackpool at lunch to get turbo seal kit but A1 was shut n diverted prob cos of a crash. whole things a car park and nav said couldn't make it in time so had to ring the guy n ordered the t2 turbo rebuild kit and also added a staggered rear oil seal ring cos decatting may cause a normal one to blow, all sent next day for £75

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390284353408?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Garrett-T...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4aa8ed537d
 
OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
well turbo's out

DSC05309.JPG


bit of oil vapour from the breather, need to sort that out

DSC05310.JPG


inside the exhaust ports are dry n normal so not burning oil from there

DSC05311.JPG
DSC05312.JPG
DSC05313.JPG
DSC05314.JPG


turbo exit coated from that octane booster

DSC05317.JPG


video of the amount of bearing play




turbine looks fine

DSC05319.JPG


and inside the turbine housings dry

DSC05320.JPG


blades n shaft marked

DSC05321.JPG


the compressor nut was very tight. stuck the turbine nut on a hex socket and had to buy an 8mm o-spanner to undo the retaining nut clockwise. and then the compressor fan was a fairly tight fit to the shaft, after alota twisting n pullin n wd40 it came off

DSC05322.JPG


remove circlip

DSC05323.JPG


this plate was tricky to remove. had to fiddle with some thin flatheads to carefully pry it out

DSC05324.JPG


the 3 torx bolts are really! tight, bent my soft £ shop torx key. gonna have to buy a harder torx bit from hardware store

DSC05327.JPG


turbine shaft slides out with a light tap

DSC05325.JPG


signs of burnt oil deposit?

DSC05326.JPG


quite thick

DSC05329.JPG


maybe burnt deposits were building up and the rear seals failing. how do you remove & fit the rings?

DSC05330.JPG
 
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OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
any seal leakage would travel down here would it not paul ?

the compressor side was slightly oily cos the rocker breather was plumbed straight to the inlet with no catch can. i'll need to clean out the intercooler from oil. the pipes from the IC, through the GTIR MAF and into the TB isn't oily so think the mist just stays down the intercooler.

the rear of the housing shows more signs of light oil burning and some radial oil spray on the turbine backface.
at idle the turbo doesn't move so maybe when its cool the rear seal tolerances are too great, not helped by the slightly worn bushes, and as oil pressure builds after 15secs its forced out through the stationary rear seal gap and burnt. once the turbo's heated enough after 2min the gaps close up.
 

frank

Club Member
your oil pressure will be at its highest while the engine is cold eh paul, (1st minute ?) then the pressure will drop as the oil warms up/thins down i guess
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
well tday i need a mini circlip plier to remove the bushes and a hard torx bit to remove the thrust bearing and i'm also awaiting the important delivery of the turbo service kit.
if i go with me sister to buy the tools i could miss the delivery and not service the turbo in time. so she goes to get the tools while i wait at home.
she came back first. the torx bit was able to removed the thrust plate but the pliers were for normal size circlips so had to dremel em abit

DSC05333.JPG


circlip off and bushes removed

DSC05334.JPG
DSC05335.JPG


using the pliers in reverse i could remove the seal rings

DSC05336.JPG


hear a van arrive and immediately opened the door before the guy could figure which house it is :p
turbo kits arrived

DSC05337.JPG


stepped rear seal ring

DSC05338.JPG


went to remove the front seal ring and Yikes it snaps:eek: if the new one snaps this easily i'll be doomed

DSC05339.JPG


was soooo nervous fitting the new ring. it required so much precision n steady hand to stretch it JUST enough to slip on, had to abort it several times but eventually got it on

DSC05340.JPG


stepped rear seal ring vs normal ring

DSC05341.JPG


fitted

DSC05345.JPG


new bushes fitted

DSC05346.JPG
DSC05347.JPG


new front plate

DSC05348.JPG


new thrust bearing appears to be brass while the original was prob aluminium

DSC05351.JPG


brass thrust bearing has T28 stamped

DSC05354.JPG


front plate fitted

DSC05355.JPG


the compressor wheel is such a tight fit on the shaft. had to turn n push it down hard almost cutting my fingers on the blades.
the shaft has much less play now

DSC05356.JPG


housings fitted

DSC05357.JPG


tried to get a new full width alternator belt of similar length but its too long

DSC05359.JPG


new manifold gasket

DSC05360.JPG


turbo on

DSC05361.JPG


cleaned the IC pipes from oil and reassembled everything.

started her up and the exhaust steams up once again after 15sec while it warms up, was hard to tell if its just a big ploom of water vapour from the cold exhaust pipes or a hint of oil smoke. engine bay smoking abit as the residue oil burns off.
but with near bearings n seals i noticed the turbo's now spinning at idle.

went for a drive to heat n burn off the oil stains. doesn't smoke at WOT or high vacuum or at warm idle. cooled for few minutes and still doesn't smoke after a warm start, so far so good.
see if it smokes tomorrow morning
 
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OP
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
added vid of the turbo shaft play.

cold started her this morning and it appears to be mainly alota steam coming out throughout 15mins of idling but the turbine housing is still leaking & burning abit of oil :/
uploading video

took her out for afew blasts to heat things up and no longer steams or leak from the turbine except for the usual drain pipe fitting, just like before.

leaking oil from the turbine housing is surely the rear seal eh?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Remap Turbocharged Standard Engine

feels like this car wants to die:(
such a crap week.
first the turbo seal blew,
then i almost had 3 accidents going to/from Ed,
then the crap newspaper manifold gasket blew during remapping,
then it failed the emissions test AGAIN with the same readings:wasntme:
now there's this serious over-rich flatspot at 3.5k on the new map,
then i coudn't do a full nistune datalog for Ed cos the consult kept disconnecting from interferance,
and finally this morning before work while trying to swap the old manifold gasket, but ran out of time, i forgot to fit the dipstick back so oil is spattered all over the front end :mad:

WHY! ffs
worst week ever. this turbo will prob never pass the mot.
gonna need to cool off before i could report back fully
 
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OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok i fitted the old manifold gasket back on and really tightened the turbo drain pipe to try stop it leakin.

here's the rubbish failed cardboard gasket

DSC05362.JPG
DSC05364.JPG
 
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OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
tested my previous turbo map and it works fine like before.
loaded up the new remap

fuel map

fuel.jpg


timing map

ign.jpg


did some WOT datalogs in 1st, 2nd & 3rd gear

1st gear is fine, wheelspins at high rev

1st log.jpg


2nd gear fine, the issue sometimes happens

2nd log.jpg


now in 3rd gear revs go upto 3k when suddenly it halts, boost is still 10psi and mixture goes 10AFR but you can see the timing just goes -21deg! (dizzy position was wayy off btw so that's prob -10deg) so no wonder it stopped making power

3rd log.jpg


looking at the timing map it looks like the timing goes haywire once it enters the blue flagged section

ign miss.jpg


then timing retards to -21degfwn

3rd miss log.jpg


whats on earths goin on there?
 
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Antony

Ex. Club Member
a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.

doing the same thing with the MR2. a 3.0 v6 mr2 never existed, so no cat test.... regardless of year as they have nothing to go on...
i mean a turbo micra is never going to pass the cat test for a non turbo one is it?
 

Antony

Ex. Club Member
oh and the best bet for mani gasket is pressed from copper, then anealed under a flame and cooled to soften it, then use that.

it will hold much better than any paper style gasket and the soft copper will fill out any imperfections in the mating surfaces too.
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.

doing the same thing with the MR2. a 3.0 v6 mr2 never existed, so no cat test.... regardless of year as they have nothing to go on...
i mean a turbo micra is never going to pass the cat test for a non turbo one is it?

i thought the mot guy i just went to said that they'd test my cars emission according to the reg so treats it as though its stock irregardless of its configuration. and yea its near impossible to get it to pass without leaning it out heavily and affect drivability.

i need to check up on that regulation
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
oh and the best bet for mani gasket is pressed from copper, then anealed under a flame and cooled to soften it, then use that.

it will hold much better than any paper style gasket and the soft copper will fill out any imperfections in the mating surfaces too.

the old gaskets holding on for now. gonna try the new expensive nissan gasket.
how or where can i get a copper gasket made?

need to get summore thicker copper washers for the turbo drain fitting cos its still leaking tiny amounts
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok this morning i thought i'd try deactivating those blue flag cells in the timing map but couldn't just press O key like the o2 closed loop flags on the fuel map, had to go into raw data mode and saw the flagged area values shoot up from 20 to 150​

raw.jpg


filtered values mode are

filtered.jpg


so copied those values into the raw data

corrected.jpg

tried it down motorway and it works

reason why this issue didn't affect the prev map was cos the rev scale was different. previously the scale only went up to 4k so i never reach the marked region of the timing map. now with the new map the rev scales up to 6.4k but the same cells are marked which means that at 3k i enter that cell region and so timing goes wack
 
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Ian

Ex. Club Member
a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.
/QUOTE]


Surely that's never going to fly as its just a modification to a stock micra therefore has to be tested as one?
 

frank

Club Member
a micra turbo does not need a cat test to pass an mot..
the mot testers flow chart for emmisions (doccument 7) states that if an exact match for the vehicle to be tested cannot be found in the database then a non cat test must be carried out"

and since a turbo micra never existed.... bajingo...... no cat test.
/QUOTE]


Surely that's never going to fly as its just a modification to a stock micra therefore has to be tested as one?

yeh , the mot guy just types in whatever engine code is on the block and it comes up on his screen, the exact match thing is if they cant find an engine code anywhere
 
OP
OP
pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
just went for another blast and yep the timing issues def fixed

wonder if the paddle clutch is glazing cos it slips if i upshift 1st to 2nd too early from standstill at wot
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
checking its not smoking on the morning before the remap


Ed remapping the turbo


this morning going to work the timing issue was still there when i got WOT at 0:09s
then at 5:20s i fixed the timing values and it accelerated no probs

 
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