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PollyMobiles Rebuild

frank

Club Member
i could,nt see any smoke at all after the 1st minute on my previous engine paul, but it still drank oil tho fwn (but i bet it was noticeable from behind when i ragged it tho)
i think i would remove all the crankcase breather pipes and try it, then remove the turbo to t/b pipe and testrun that also
and running a/f/r,s of 12:1 will be causing some borewash surely ?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok i unplugged & blocked the pcv pipe so the crankcase is open vented.

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drove her hard at 3-4k rpm down motorway for 50miles came back recheck oil and its used 1/4 stick as usual. so its not the breather system.

it runs at least 10afr at full boost frank

stani the cats there yes

i think the next step is to test if its actually the turbo exhaust shaft seal thats leaking after 2.5k where maybe the oil pressure is enough to be forced through the seal and that when i return home off-boost under 2.5k it just burns away any evidence. so i'll prob take off the turbo, IC & downpipe, reinstall the janspeed manifold and redo the same test. if it still loses oil after 2.5k rpm then its an engine problem.

frank when it was getting remapped, all i saw during a full pull was a ploom of rich black sooty smoke behind
 
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Stani1029

Club Member
Its just my old almera burnt oil which i couldnt see from behind until a decat was fitted. Then it was ridiculous the amount of smoke. Was maybe a coincedence that the smoke appeared straight after
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Could burning lotsa oil ruin the cat?

Just swapped stock injectors over. In process of removing turbo then fit janspeed
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
Depends how much oil has reached it i suppose :) running rich doesnt do the cat any favours either. So its getting grief regardless. ;)

Fingers crossed its nothing serious.

Mines just broke its oil temp gauge, somehow (nothing obvious)...so looks like theres micra demons floating about. :D
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i only go rich when accelerating during sliproads or exiting roundbouts but most times is cruising at -20 - 0psi with 14-16afr

trackdays is another matter for the poor cat :p

aye fingers XX its just a turbo seal, gonna finish the janspeed swap tomorrow cos i'm knackered
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Oh ffs i tried to fit the janspeed mani only to find the turbo catback system 2inches too far back and the cat is angled few deg's off cos i didn't tell aas exhaust where to place the cat exactly. Cant just weld up another pipe cos dont have the material or time so only option is to swap the entire exhaust system back to janspeed. Gaaarghh
 

martinb

Ex. Club Member
Put turbo back on Paul,

Remove actuator c Clip (holding rod to wastegate arm and use a spring to hold it shut, the turbo won't make any boost

Might be worth putting stock fuel rail and ecu in just to be sure your not overfueling

The car should run NA, not sure whether to disconnect intercooler piping to tb so engine can breathe

Hopefully it's the turbo oil seals matey

Just a thought mate :)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
after more work than expected i finally reinstalled the janspeed system & stock rail. i wanted to totally remove the turbo martin to diag whether its leaking from there.

inside the inlet ports 1-8, no signs of leaking stem seal

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the exhaust ports also had no signs of leak, just very sooty

janspeed manifold on but the turbo system is wayy off, need to reweld flanges in future. so the long process of fitting the rest of janspeed catback began

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the turbo turbine looks fine, no oil leaks there

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elbow & manifold is just very sooty. the O2 and wideband sensor were caked in thick soot, can't be good for operation

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putting the rear calipers back on i found the piston seal has pop out abit, slightly rusting the piston. prob need a new caliper in future againnn but just cleaned it up for now, works fine. then while trying to bleed the rear right caliper i totally forgot to fit the left one and the piston was almost pushed out, dohh why oh why do i keep making these silly mistakes.

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anyway all sorted. janspeed mapping burned to ecu, starts fine and drove on motorway 70mph 3k rpm for 50m and bad news is its still losing oil at usual rate Grr
gonna run more miles to double check but i've just about given up hope on this damn forged engine.

guess my only options are to spend alot more n get this forged engine rehoned re-ringed re-bedded with no guarantee for prob £300-400 or give it up n put the original reliable stock engine back in that'll work n get remapped once again for prob £300

guess i wasted money on this forged engine and feel i should go with the more reliable proven route and the turbo kit worked with a stock engine so it'll prob be fine. the forged bits woulda been a nice insurance if it'd worked but turns out not so in this case:down:

what a ball-ache i led myself into
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
just caned it hard again 3-4k down motorway and yep its def drinking oil. wonder what if i use a thicker castrol gtx high milage oil?
 
maybe a thicker oil will be more suitable specially if its a small leak? you could always take your time about this and refit the stock engine and run non turbo or very little turbo or whatever is best...

and take alot of time to rebuild and inspect this forged engine... simply theres no point in wasting what you have as i dont know of any other forged engines about around here....

so i would simply do that and then take time with the forged engine and rebuild it with new rings and find the problem.....

simply because i know one little problem is right up my bum so i cant imagine the problems your having and the amount of fustration its causing you
 

baguete

Site Supporter
The best thing to do is install previous engine with Janspeed exhaust, get a "new" block, bore it to forged pistons spec, get new rings for forged pistons and start over again. Hope you get it all sorted soon mate.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i'll see what a thicker oil does.

its just uneconomical to try n repair this forged engine if it turns out to be the rings. its already been wayy over budget and i'm outa holidays to perform any major engine work. plus i'm not even barely pushing the engine hard enough to take advantage of the forged piston anyway compared to stock.

tis cheaper n faster to swap back to stock engine than risk running this forged engine on track then run outa oil then blow up.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
The best thing to do is install previous engine with Janspeed exhaust, get a "new" block, bore it to forged pistons spec, get new rings for forged pistons and start over again. Hope you get it all sorted soon mate.

fit the previous engine, yes. but to buy a new block to get machined, re-ringed with forged pistons then spend more time n money n labour swapping that into the car for no advantage at all in the end seems pretty pointless

been spending way too much now, just want a setup that'll work reliably at no additional cost. forged engine was simply just an expensive luxery that i now pay the price for.
 

r-reg-sr

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Site Supporter
engine forgery:grinning:
good luck mate shame that was a no good engine

(EDIT dont know what the heck um talking)
 

frank

Club Member
you,ll suss it out in the end paul (Y) just fit the other engine and have some fun with the boostin, then inspect that forged engine at your leisure (my money is on the honing personally, the compressions sound ok but the honing might be too deep and holding too much oil ?)
 

martinb

Ex. Club Member
fit the previous engine, yes. but to buy a new block to get machined, re-ringed with forged pistons then spend more time n money n labour swapping that into the car for no advantage at all in the end seems pretty pointless

been spending way too much now, just want a setup that'll work reliably at no additional cost. forged engine was simply just an expensive luxery that i now pay the price for.

Jez sorry to here this man :(

I guess the only real positive outlook at the moment is the stock compression one, hey it worked for tristian didn't it :)

Don't give up on that block though mate, just leave it in the garage for when you can fix/ replace it

Have you got the original stock compression map that came with the car turbo/engine still or will your map be ok with different compression ratios?

I reckon it could be Done in a night with help mate

If I could get to you I'd love to Kendal a hand and see you back up and running again

Good luck mate
 

Ian

Ex. Club Member
Sorry to see this mate, it's a real downer, but better off to push on otherwise its a waste of time and money upto now. You boostin the stock engine for now? or running it with janspeed?
 

gtsnissanb

Official MSC Trader
I've read someone used to repair piston aircraft engines, he'd run them on WOT and then throw some vim (scouring powder) down the intakes. This would deglaze the bores/rings and (usually) cured any oil consumption.
Personally, I've never been brave enough to try it, but he swears by it. I'm not too sure how well a car engine would repsond but if you try it and it works, post up the results.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Did you run the engine in with used engine oil? And how long did you run it in for?

i first used royal purple break-in oil to bed the rings in using motomans method for 500miles. changed to castrol gtx 10w40 to get exhaust welded but was told its not bedded enough so changed back to royal purple for 500miles more bedding in. at 1000m i changed to tesco 10w40 mineral. at 20k when it drank all the mineral oil i changed to halfords/comma 5w50 synth oil. has never stopped drinking oil at 1qt/200miles
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
you,ll suss it out in the end paul (Y) just fit the other engine and have some fun with the boostin, then inspect that forged engine at your leisure (my money is on the honing personally, the compressions sound ok but the honing might be too deep and holding too much oil ?)

hence when i stopped the engine to look inside, the little retained excess oil on the walls gather at the piston sides keeping it wet n clean while the inner section remains dry n sooty? and such little oil burns unnoticable from the drivers pov but it all adds up after long distances.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Jez sorry to here this man :(

I guess the only real positive outlook at the moment is the stock compression one, hey it worked for tristian didn't it :)

Don't give up on that block though mate, just leave it in the garage for when you can fix/ replace it

Have you got the original stock compression map that came with the car turbo/engine still or will your map be ok with different compression ratios?

I reckon it could be Done in a night with help mate

If I could get to you I'd love to Kendal a hand and see you back up and running again

Good luck mate

yea the stock engine would work fine with turbo.
sure i'd keep workin on the forged engine if i take it out, give or take the funding, but cos of the july roadtrip and august nurburgring i'd need something that works for now

i got the original map that came with the turbo kit but it's not ideal and injector's wrong size. going from forged back to stock compression would change the efficiency and so need another remap to suit.

help with crane n stuff would be nice but this garage is a squeeze for two ppl to work in but i'll be alright ;)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Sorry to see this mate, it's a real downer, but better off to push on otherwise its a waste of time and money upto now. You boostin the stock engine for now? or running it with janspeed?

forged engine with janspeed system at the mo to diagnose this oil loss
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
I've read someone used to repair piston aircraft engines, he'd run them on WOT and then throw some vim (scouring powder) down the intakes. This would deglaze the bores/rings and (usually) cured any oil consumption.
Personally, I've never been brave enough to try it, but he swears by it. I'm not too sure how well a car engine would repsond but if you try it and it works, post up the results.

don't think i'd be reckless enough to try that but maybe if the engine is def a gonner and its an absolute last resort before any major machining or binning it
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
ok ppl tonight i changed from 5w50 fuly synth back to my usual castrol gtx 10w40 with new filter.

drove at 2.8k 60mph for 50m and oil stays full, looks promising that the thickness is helping.
pushed it hard on next test at 3-4k 80mph for 50m and oil drops abit but less than with 5w50.

ok lets try even thicker. looking for castrol high milage oil i used to get but asda only has 10w40 and 15w40. the high milage stuff used to be 15w40 (they prob just removed that sub title) so i got that.
with 15w40 i drove at 70mph 3k for 50m where it used to certainly lose abit of oil over long motorway distances. the result is its still full(Y)
seems 5w50 was def too thin for the state of this engine but i'll do more milage on 15w40 to make sure it fixes the oil loss for good.
 
ok ppl tonight i changed from 5w50 fuly synth back to my usual castrol gtx 10w40 with new filter.

drove at 2.8k 60mph for 50m and oil stays full, looks promising that the thickness is helping.
pushed it hard on next test at 3-4k 80mph for 50m and oil drops abit but less than with 5w50.

ok lets try even thicker. looking for castrol high milage oil i used to get but asda only has 10w40 and 15w40. the high milage stuff used to be 15w40 (they prob just removed that sub title) so i got that.
with 15w40 i drove at 70mph 3k for 50m where it used to certainly lose abit of oil over long motorway distances. the result is its still full(Y)
seems 5w50 was def too thin for the state of this engine but i'll do more milage on 15w40 to make sure it fixes the oil loss for good.

thats such a promising result mate im glad its working maybe run that for a couple of k and then see if it will take the thinner oil again as the forged stuff is alot harder and maybe bed in slower or something along those lines
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
thats such a promising result mate im glad its working maybe run that for a couple of k and then see if it will take the thinner oil again as the forged stuff is alot harder and maybe bed in slower or something along those lines

i've yet to see what happens when its pushed but seems fine for normal motorway driving

think it woulda broken in much as it can by now
 

gtsnissanb

Official MSC Trader
don't think i'd be reckless enough to try that but maybe if the engine is def a gonner and its an absolute last resort before any major machining or binning it

Don't blame you, it's effectively helps the rings bed in I wouldn't do it to mine unless It was my last option
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
the plugs have always been having this white crusty deposit build up on one side of the insulator & electrode (prob whichever side is facing the inlet) since running the forged engine, the threaded outer bit is normal soot black. always thought its cos its running too lean. last night i changed from stock plugs to the colder turbo plugs and still same one sided deposit.

now i read the white crusty stuff could be ash from burning oil and that may be supported by the recent rapid oil loss, wet piston sides, heavy sooty deposits throughout the exhaust system. so tis prob certain that there's issues with the cyl honing or rings. lets see if the 15w40 reduces oil loss past the rings and so piston become drier n plugs brown up n make less soot
 

frank

Club Member
the plugs have always been having this white crusty deposit build up on one side of the insulator & electrode (prob whichever side is facing the inlet) since running the forged engine, the threaded outer bit is normal soot black. always thought its cos its running too lean. last night i changed from stock plugs to the colder turbo plugs and still same one sided deposit.

now i read the white crusty stuff could be ash from burning oil and that may be supported by the recent rapid oil loss, wet piston sides, heavy sooty deposits throughout the exhaust system. so tis prob certain that there's issues with the cyl honing or rings. lets see if the 15w40 reduces oil loss past the rings and so piston become drier n plugs brown up n make less soot

probably the honing is too deep eh paul (the rings will be fine imo) i have some castrol R40 if you want mate (like treacle lol)
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
can the pro rings be reused on a rehoned block? or is it they only have one shot at breaking-in. what effect does a real thick oil have on the engine?
 

frank

Club Member
can the pro rings be reused on a rehoned block? or is it they only have one shot at breaking-in. what effect does a real thick oil have on the engine?

i doubt if the rings will be worn paul, and i guess that if the honing is too deep/coarse it holds too thick a film of oil, (hence the good compression)
and i think the oil "control" rings should scrape about 95% of the oil off and leave a very thin film for ringseal and lubrication, but these 3 piece steel rings are very weak and i dont think they like a honed surface (baguete did,nt glazebust his at all iirc, and had no problems i believe)
but the old 1 piece oilrings were proper scrapers (very springy cast iron)
and i guess the thicker oil does,nt splash up under the bores as much ?
 

baguete

Site Supporter
Yes, on my previous SR engine i just used the best rings for each piston/cylinder and didnt re-honed the cylinders, no oil consumption afterwards...
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Ah well guess twas false expectations, it didn't work.

Did the 70mph test again and it used prob 1/8 qt then second test pushed it at 80mph and has used 1/4 qt. Meh

Guess i'll swap the old engine back someday.
 
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