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PollyMobiles Rebuild

solarice

Ex. Club Member
Yeah the test has probably contributed to the soot :) i'd only start tinkering if it keeps happening.

Only other thing i did with my plugs was re gap them.

Guess youre cruising leaner than 14.7? may aswell play about with it til you get it spot on...so long as you remember what you've changed easy enough to go back.
 

Antony

Ex. Club Member
so heres the big question.....

what the hell are you lot going on about with the sr20 afm? :p

simple terms please guys im thick.
im going to be running my cg13 turbo on 5psi. with stock fuel rail but FSE pressure regulator (davey_c's old one actualy) and a nistune ecu from ed when the cars running....

so what limits the stock afm and how the hell do i make it work?

thanks guys!
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Yeah the test has probably contributed to the soot :) i'd only start tinkering if it keeps happening.

Only other thing i did with my plugs was re gap them.

Guess youre cruising leaner than 14.7? may aswell play about with it til you get it spot on...so long as you remember what you've changed easy enough to go back.
ok i'll check for soot again tomorrow morning

yeah during light cruise it tries for 14.7 but mostly feathers to 15-16afr hence white plugs. got master save of eds map so no probs reverting back.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
crank seal ordered for £6

the ign barrel starting to stick now during cranking, wd40 not workin so need to take the switch apart someday
 

r-reg-sr

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Site Supporter
i seen inside mine from before
it wears down inside and when i fixed/straightend the bent inside
it just eventually warmed up and bent again,ended up with a facelift scrappys one
good since then
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
ok i'll check for soot again tomorrow morning

yeah during light cruise it tries for 14.7 but mostly feathers to 15-16afr hence white plugs. got master save of eds map so no probs reverting back.
Yeah sounds like you wanna rich it up a bit...not sure what would be ideal for the higher compression or if it would even be a factor.

so heres the big question.....

what the hell are you lot going on about with the sr20 afm? :p

so what limits the stock afm and how the hell do i make it work?

thanks guys!
Antony mine runs the stock AFM...been awhile since ive checked in realtime. But at 5 - 7psi it seems to be handling it ok (i really need to do more mapping to find out hehe). I pretty much didnt do anything but clean the throttlebody before i started mapping.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
grrarghhh i'm such a frickin tool sometimesgrr

just took of the front wheel to tighten a loose screw holding the arch to the wing, hand tighten wheel nuts on then lower car n put the jack n tools back

drove out to motorway n A roads to adjust the injectors till it richens to 13.5-14afr during cruise but it gets 1afr too rich at high loads

then i thought the tyre was making an odd noise once per turn. and then i realised DOHHH i've forgotten to tighten the nuts back n remove the locking nut key. stopped to get tools but couldn't find locking key cos i bloomin left it on the wheel so its loong gone now. tightened the other 3 nuts tight n headed home but argh what a stupid errorgrr decided to goto halfords n get another locking nuts for £37:wasntme:

molegrips couldn't get em off so i had to angle grind a flat edge to use an adjustable spanner

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but in the process i accidentally briefly touched the alloy for 1 millisec and ARGHHHHHHHHHHHgrrgrr ruined it

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new nuts fitted but damnit i'm such an idiot tday
 
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martinb

Ex. Club Member
Aaargh damn man sorry to see that Paul

Go in the house and leave the car fir tonight, have a beer and forget about it or your be more stressed

Good luck mate chin up eh
 

r-reg-sr

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Site Supporter
ahh feel for you mate
they look like the exact same lock nut on my sr alloys
and i also dont have a key for them,for 2 years now so have to bang on a 20mm socket over them,its very tight
to do em up i just tighen up and pull backwards to get the socket off while spinnig the rachet clockwise
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
hmm after wiping clean the sump etc and afew days of hard driving to from work, the engine doesn't consume any oil compared to constant motorway driving. and there's only the slightest drop of oil that leaked from the sump gasket under the front crank, front crank seal isn't leaking but i replaced it anyway. now taking sump back off to redo gasket.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
aghh takes sooo long to do the sump gasket, just finished. and tis soo messy, one thing i hate bout working with the sump off is oil drippin onto my hair, face, etc. anyway tis all done.

also i think i figured why it occasionally idles badly is cos the IAV is partially stuck with grit so it can't fully open quick enough during high load hence stalling. all cleaned, lets see how it does tomorrow
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
just went out for a drive on motorways and good news is there's no signs of leaking:grinning: will go for a long drive tomorrow to double check

back at the office, what an unexpected surprise. my uprated engine mounts have arrived. its bone shaking time mwahaha:laugh:

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solarice

Ex. Club Member
Haha you'll get used to it. Whats the metal piece thats at the bottom of the pic? Different front mount im guessing.
 

frank

Club Member
if you,re blowing new seals and sump sealant paul, maybe its a crankcase pressure issue when boosted ?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
after i cleaned the sump to locate the leak the crank seal area was dry so not sure that was leaking. but when i took the sump off it appears to be a lack of sealant or greasy surface where the rubber gasket piece is bonded to the groove under the oil pump cover. the groove under the front & rear crank seal tis a hard place to degrease & seal properly, hence these two occasions of gasket failure. it just takes one tiny lack of sealant to cause a leak so this time i just slapped a mega thick layer on all round.
 

Antony

Ex. Club Member
what sealant are you using?

i use loctite engine sealant, comes in a black tube.... its £14 but i built 4 engines with it..lol

this stuff sticks like shifties on a shovel...:grinning:
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
some PU black sealant from partco. bonded the rear spoiler, sump, waterpump & cover with it no probs, really tough.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
old vs new mounts

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rear mount bolted up

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front mount pushed into holder

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right mounts

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left mounts

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started her up a woah, free massage people :laugh: feels like urs solarice, raw vibrating scary beast. lots more vibration through steering and seats and pedals.

drove out and it feels so much more direct n accurate. the clutch judder from setting off is gone. the sudden jerking at low speed & rpm during light on/off throttle when the injectors turn on/off is all gone. gear selection is such a breeze n direct. at high freq rev such as motorway cruising its smooth. besides the low freq vibration at idle everything else is so much better(Y)

just three more things to sort out now. the occasional lean stalling idle issue, pulling steering and an annoying rattle from inside the right A-pillar.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Scopez ur message boxs full but to answer ur q's

yea been busy n tired.

Good to know its ok to run at 14-15afr. Yea 10-11's at max boost.

The nuts do stick out abit. Helix is all fine now. Release bearing just occasionally sticking. Is santapod on a weekend? Not sure i have enough holidays off work if its on workday. But i am trying to plan a trackday at oulton park next few months, roadtrip in july and nurburgring in august
 

Low Rider

Poindexter
Founding Member
Moderator
Club Member
what sealant are you using?

i use loctite engine sealant, comes in a black tube.... its £14 but i built 4 engines with it..lol

this stuff sticks like shifties on a shovel...:grinning:
It's 90% preparation when it comes to the sump. You have to make sure everything is utterly clean, sealant free and degreased. So finishing off with a good dose of acetone before application of sealant is a must. We also 100% de-oil the sump, (blast with parafin, white spirit and finish off with acetone on the sealing surfaces). I also found it's good to apply a thin layer of sealant onto the block surfaces, as well as a continual bead on the sump itself. 1/2 moon seals also need sealant under them to bond to the block and an additional thin bead on them which overlaps into the block surfaces to ensure good coverage and no pesky corner leaks between the seal and the sump/block interfaces.

Sealed with no problems following the above process and car was left for 48hours just to be sure before being run to ensure the sealant has fully settled. Takes ages to do, but it beats having to strip everything down again to re-do it.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
bahh i just took her out on motorway and after 120miles she's still! drunk 1/2 stick of oil grr

so she's alright during urban driving below 3k rpm but motorways driving at 3-3.5k rpm shes losing oil.

plugs still white and pistons still dry with damp sides but i noticed the engine cover breather filter is soaked with oil, maybe this is where all the oil vapours are escaping? surely it shouldn't be losing this much oil past the breather? unless something like excess blowby is forcing the vapours out more than usual meaning wrecked rings?

would fitting an oil catch can fix the oil problem or could the blowby be too serious?
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
You can loose oil from the breathers, but i dont see how'd you be loosing that much (without the engine bay getting covered). An oil catch tank will help you know if its loosing the oil that way. Knock one up from a drinks bottle if you wanna quick test.

Having a spy into the inlet manifold will also let you know if theres excess oil (usually over time it will start to pool slightly at the bottom on a stock engine).

Surely you'd be seeing blue smoke if its burning it all though. :S

The oil breather pipe at the front of the engine (S shape) can also get filled with crap and become partially if not fully blocked.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
You can loose oil from the breathers, but i dont see how'd you be loosing that much (without the engine bay getting covered). An oil catch tank will help you know if its loosing the oil that way. Knock one up from a drinks bottle if you wanna quick test.

Having a spy into the inlet manifold will also let you know if theres excess oil (usually over time it will start to pool slightly at the bottom on a stock engine).

Surely you'd be seeing blue smoke if its burning it all though. :S

The oil breather pipe at the front of the engine (S shape) can also get filled with crap and become partially if not fully blocked.
I'll try mock up a drinks oil catcher. Btw on turbo engines where do you plumb the oil catch out to? At full boost is crankcase pressure still greater than inlet boost pressure?

Cold starts is abit lumpy at first but soon clears fews secs later, maybe abit of oil in cold cyl? Once warmed theres no smoke.

That s-pipe going from lower crankcase to the engine cover is prob only applicable during off-boost vacuum. On boost the pcv shuts and everything wants to go up past the timingchain cover passage and out the pcv breather port where me breather filter is soaked.

Actually just had a thought that if the pcv breather filter was drenched in oil its essentially blocked and with the pcv closed during boost alot of crankcase blowby pressure has nowhere to go which may have caused the crankseals and sump gasket to fail?
 

solarice

Ex. Club Member
I'll try mock up a drinks oil catcher. Btw on turbo engines where do you plumb the oil catch out to? At full boost is crankcase pressure still greater than inlet boost pressure?
I was intending on connecting the two breather pipes on the cam cover, then sending the combined line to the catch tank, and then reroute it back into the inlet manifold (were the breather pipe near the oil filler cap currently goes to). That way vapour could still be burned off but excess oil would be detained for questioning.

Others i've read either have to open so the catch tank can just vent to air...and again some reroute the caught oil to drain back into the sump.

Apart from air pollution related, it probably makes little difference which of the three you go with.

Out of curiosity whats your oil pressure saying when your in the oil escape region.? could high oil pressure be forcing oil out of the turbo? (id be expecting signs of it happening) I know my oil pressure reads higher than apparently its supposed to be able to get to - relief valve and what not.

I also know mine collects a bit of oil in the inlet (cant say if its more than usual though), i've never got around to properly making / buying a catch tank.

Its probably nothing related but i'd be trying to get the plugs back to a light brown, rather than white.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
my previous engine which originally came with the grey micra used with the janspeed system used no oil at all even after couple trackdays.

this forged engine only smokes abit from cold starts though most prob just condensation from cold exhaust and then once all warmed up there's not a hint of smoke at all, only rich black smoke when reving it WOT.

this morning i made a quick catch can with drinks bottle and SS scouring pads

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i set off down motorway 60mph at 2.8k rpm keeping boost below 0psi for 25miles. checked catch can and oil levels, nothing in catch can but still consuming oil. topped up oil n returned back home using full boost 3-4k rpm at times but mostly it cruises at -10psi and still nothing captured.

DSC04748.JPG


not a sign of any oil leak anywhere. when i last took the downpipe off the insides are just dry n sooty with no wet oil. inside the turbo inlet housing looks clean n dry so turbo's not leaking. peeked through the TB and the bottom of the inlet manifold is a normal light smear of oil with no pools. i'm really baffled

ed and local garages are closed but will try leakdown test asap.

solarice what if i block off the pcv to inlet mani pipe and connect the engine cover breather to a catch can then into the IC piping?

i fine tuned the injector multiplier and now the mixtures are bang on.

i dont have an oil pressure gauge
 
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solarice

Ex. Club Member
I dont see any reason why you couldnt connect it up that way, so long as the oil vapour isnt going to be flying past any sensors e.g. MAF. Two reasons, it'll risk oil contamination and you'd be measuring the vapour again (not sure how much it would affect mind). Where as now the ecu doesnt see it at all. :)

Im as baffled as you are as to where the oil is going, id have said some of it was hiding in the extra oil lines etc if you'd just started driving it from a fresh oil install, but because its constantly going down. If theres no leaks (sump plug etc), its got to be either in the sump and not getting measured (highly doubtful -- you'd have alot of extra oil in there by now) or its being consumed by the engine, which of course you dont want. :( :S

Hopefully we're both missing something obvious and simple.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
i fear it could be damaged rings cos the sides of the piston tops are always clean n smear of oil compared to the build up of soot in the middle
 

frank

Club Member
if its smoking in the lower gears when you pull away first thing in the morning, then my money would be on the oil control rings paul,
my original 1.0 piston/1.3 chuffed smoke when i pulled off in the morning, and drank about 1L of oil a month (35 mile daily commute) fwn and the higher compression just makes it worse
i stretched the rings in this current engine to get them to scrape a bit harder lol, and so far so good :grinning: (no drinking)
 

frank

Club Member
ahaa. bodge it like frank!... (Y):laugh: love it
yeh-man :p they go all limp after a few thousand heat cycles innit, freshens them up lol
i,m not saying that pauls new rings are knackered, but it does,nt sound like they are "oil controlling" very well
(before and after pic)

 

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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
so does this mean i'll have to fork out yet even more money to get a new set of pro-rings, take the entire engine apart again! strip down to the block, get it rehoned by specialists for ££, new nissan HG, refit everything and re-bed the rings all over again GENTLY without motomans method this time? i feel like i just wasted £500 on trying to properly bed in this engine :down:

or maybe i should get someone to bed it on a dyno for me?

cos the breather filter is soaked i wasted another £15 on a pipercross filter from halfrauds and what a farce. first it didn't fit so had to dremel abit of the inside and used a junilee clip rather than the cheapo squeeze clamp it had. and now couple hrs later it snaps off ! wtf its like its made outa pencil eraser grr cheap rip off crap

DSC04749.JPG


off to order another filter off ebay :wasntme:

god damn i'm gonna be broke by the end of the week at this rate

should prob just deal with the cost of topping up oil every 200miles rather than rebuild the whole engine. or maybe i should just give up on this damn forged engine, swap back over my proven reliable stock engine and get it remapped once again?
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
noddie do you remember the specs of what the engine was re-bored out to, JE piston spec and what rings were used? trying to find out from JE's website how much a new set of rings here cost
 
It was done when I got the block, kid off here called broony got it done. I really don't know what to say mate:( the ring were brand new when me and frank put them in so I wouldn't get new ones...
 

Guy

Has gone over to the oily side...
Club Member
I gave up buying those oil breather filters. Never had one that DIDN'T break off after a few miles. Why the frig they can't make them out of proper rubber I don't know grr.
 

Stani1029

Club Member
The breather ive had before fitted into the rubber elbow that goes into the airbox. Might have been one from matt humphris.....
 

Antony

Ex. Club Member
believe it or not, the halfords own brand "ripspeed" ones are better quality than the pipercross ones... pipercrap look like they are made in someones back garden...lol
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
It was done when I got the block, kid off here called broony got it done. I really don't know what to say mate:( the ring were brand new when me and frank put them in so I wouldn't get new ones...
Is he still on here? The rings may have been new but maybe i pushed them too hard too soon during break-in and ruined them? Dunno what other options i have other than to rebuild it with new rings or use my old engine. Ya think the compression looked ok or did adding oil show that they're leaking too much? Woulda thought that if the inlet or exh valve stems were leaking i'd see some smoke. Maybe i should get someone to video me exhaust while i drive.
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
The ripspeed filter was only a tenner but the hole was too small. I know what not to buy next time.

Martin, same here :) till i get a new one
 
I dunno, I'm no expert on this stuff but I think I would just run it for a while and keep putting oil in, see if things settle down...
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Hmm guys i did some test drives tday and the loss of oil appears to be rev related. Keeping below 2500rpm whether driving lightly or heavily it uses no oil. But go above 2500rpm and it begins to lose oil at the usual 1quart/200m with no smoking.

Ideas what could cause this? I'm thinking maybe its the pcv system? Maybe at high rpm the crank creates more oil mist/vapour and the higher vacuum while the throttles mostly closed at that rpm causes the vapours to be sucked faster out of the crankcase to be burned at a faster rate unnoticed.

Although i never had this sorta problem before with old engine
 

frank

Club Member
2500 is about where the boost starts aint it paul ? has anyone followed you as you drive it ? (its hard to equate the smoke via your mirrors eh :) )
 
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pollyp

pollyp

Club Member
Yea when i floor it it created at most 5psi at 2500rpm before i back off then on again etc. Got no one to follow me.
Recorded the exhaust at coldstart and theres a slight white mist few secs after cranking (it slightly struggles to run as though oil has slowly dripped in overnight, and then IAV opens and it clears its throat then revs rise) and then it clears and then 30secs later the cold exhaust creates water vapour, clears after few miles.
 
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