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NOSsan K10 Micra WON Litre...

Ed

Fusion Motorsport
MSC Founder
Official MSC Trader
If there was another manifold to compare with that would be great. Best bet is to get to a dynodynamics r/r and see what power figures you get.
 
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SammoHung
Sorry for late reply...things have been quite manic recently

RR figures would be cool but even better would be a double run with an inter run manifold swap (I dont mind donating or hosting)
Im gutted that I missed the last RR (personal circumstances & lack of ISP at the time meant that I missed the boat on the your surrey one :-( )

Anyways....moving back to the topic of nitrous oxide injection on an MA10:

Things have calmed down a bit now that Liz & I have moved house and all the Zillion DIY tasks have been done...and I've managet to get back on to the project....


I have progressed the installation to the point where I have done a static test.... but unfortunately I'm not yielding a decent set of initial results (happy it didnt go nuke first attempt though <didn't get the jets in the wrong solenoids and the likes>)

basicly I think the delivery of either the fuel or the nitrous is not smooth resulting in the engin trying to get to full RPM but is bogging repeatedly, so I I'm hoping that I've just got some finger trouble somwhere. I'm getting support from the suppliers of the kit and so hopefully should get to the bottom of it soon

hehe nos exhaust fumes smell
 

Ed

Fusion Motorsport
MSC Founder
Official MSC Trader
The ST made really quite odd smells with Nitrous. Apparently it shouldnt smell of anything but it did, but was hard to describe! Good luck with it, 25bhp was AMAZING on the ST.
 

Fordy

Ex. Club Member
come on sammo sooner you get yours working sooner i get mine in :grinning:

sammo regards the fueling, would it be better to run a eletric fuel pump instead of the standard one

fitted like this

fuel supply - fuel filter - eletric fuel pump - pressure regulator (to smooth out the pressure - nos t piece - pressure regulator (to lower pressure down to carb levels) - carb

would that be ok ed/sammo?, having no experience with nitrous systems i'll ask alot of questions
 

Ed

Fusion Motorsport
MSC Founder
Official MSC Trader
Yes that would be fine. The mechanical pumps on the K10 engine are fairly reliable, but can cause strange issues. Remove it put a low pressure elec pump and you should be fine.
 
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SammoHung
Yes I totally agree, and in fact, this was my original plan (shown on the earlier pages of the write up on the wizards forum)...but before I rehash the fuel system, I reaaly want to see of the stock pump can do the job...

A few people on here have ran up to around 80bhp on the stock pump...

. my biggest worry about the stock pump is "its pulsing mechanical operation" (ie the pressure is modulated and since the pressure is low anyway, this modulation may be large enough to swing the nitrous mixture all the way through 'too rich'<bogging down> and 'lean'<pop> (EEK!!))

anyway, I think I've sobred up now (from last nights tennants superstrength fest) so I'm goanna check the sparks are still as strong as they were a few months ago and check some other stuff too...maybe try to do an audio recording of the static test..

<EDIT: later on after some tests.....>

DRAT!!

I've just changed my email address on the wizards forum and I cant post untill I get the confirmation email link through (what an idiot!)

Ok so I'll post the link to the sound recording here first and then catch up with the main writeup when I get let back in

So following on from
http://www.technical-forum.com/nitrous-advice-forum/nossan-k10-micra-won-litre-t2799,start,75.html


First of all I rechecked the sparks using a spark strength tester that I bought from Fusion Motorsport and all leads gave a strong blue spark with the calipers extended to the end stop with no misses....One thing I did notice though was with a small gap in the calipers the spark grew fatter and oranger
...Im gonna look into this on thenet (any ideas anyone)

Back to business....

Idid this with a £2.99 pc microphone & laptop, heres a commentary on the recording....

There were 3 activations (3 tests) during this recording while trying to keep everythin else the same...then a normal revup for comparrison

9.0s to 14.0s : trying to find & hold 2000 rpm (system not activated)
16.5s to 19.0s : NITROUS ACTIVATED and held on while throttle position held steady
19.0s to 27.5s : trying to find & hold 2000 rpm (system not activated)
27.5s to 29.5s : NITROUS ACTIVATED and held on while throttle position held steady
29.5s to 45.0s: trying to find & hold 2000 rpm (system not activated)
45.0s to 46.5s : NITROUS ACTIVATED and held on while throttle position held steady
46.5s to 55.0s: wondering if this was recording properly (system not activated)
55.0s to 60.0s: normal rev up to around 4500rpm ish (system not activated)


Heres the link:
http://www.roadar-northeast.co.uk/K10/statictest.mp3


<EDIT: after digging around some more>

Ive found a couple of references that indicate that orange sparks are OK...so are blue ones

http://iaa.umd.edu/walls/INAG207/Ignition/Ignitionsteps.html
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/display/router.asp?DocID=67479
 
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SammoHung
yee haaa!

OK mission accomplished! throttle trigger lashed up (no more 'terrorist bomber' switch for activation)...very high RPM tests done with NO catastrophic effects ....quite the opposite infact (7.5kRPM according to the recorder...and my ears can vouch for this too)...all done now!

FORDY this is your official cue to buy a wizards kit (right now) me thinks?
(you have the 'bling' to go with the 'sting')

http://www.technical-forum.com/nitrous-advice-forum/viewtopic,p,36233.html#36233

In addition to this, I can CONFIRM that the MA10 weakest link in terms of torque IS the clutch (not the gearbox) I have clear clutch slippage in 4th gear at around 50 mph with a progressive 50 shot (+25bhp max)...the engine revs rise but hardly any speed increase of the car.....

...however the same test in 3rd gear is nuts...plenty extra acceleration ( but I bet the clutch is suffering from a bit of 'less-noticeable 'clutch slip'.


Busy looking at mod options around the clutch area (with the help of a few other MSC chaps)...

...keeping an eye on Superls' thread too http://www.micra.org.uk/showthread.php?t=20264 &Wrenchables GC box developments here too (interesting stuff).


I would like to keep drive train mods to a minimum though......(in the interests of other peoples budding MA nitrous projects)


<EDIT> ...just thought: judging by the 'feel' of Liz' silver bullet (MA12) compared with my MA10 N/A comparrision....an MA12 would be completely nutz on nitrous!!!....we just need a practical solution for the MA clutch....wait a minute ...no we don't.....these things rev happily enough to get more use from a lower gear??? (assuming proper engine maintenance ofcourse).......and this is just a meassily 50 shot (+25bhp jets!!!)

I am addicted
 

Ed

Fusion Motorsport
MSC Founder
Official MSC Trader
All seems fine but I wouldnt recommend stock engine to 7.5K You will def not be making max power anywhere near that high.
 

Speedle

Ex. Club Member
All seems fine but I wouldnt recommend stock engine to 7.5K You will def not be making max power anywhere near that high.

indeed i never rev mine past 6k if i can avoid it certainly no where near 7.5k :p stock the max power is 5500 IIRC ;) ill be having mine RR soon so i can see what the power band is like

oh and almost forgot! bloody good work sammo the first MA10 powered nitrous car (that we know of) :D
 

Ed

Fusion Motorsport
MSC Founder
Official MSC Trader
A car with carbs exhaust etc definately will not make max power at 5.5K unless the cams are horrific or car is badly setup!
 

Arnold

www.alanarnold.co.uk
Moderator
Site Supporter
My max HP was a little over 6000RPM - RR graph in my blog. I said it had power until up to 7 but nobody believed me - but there's the proof :p
 
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SammoHung
Disaster!!

DISASTER!...I CANT BELEIVE IT!!!

...I only have ONE can of Tennents Super Strength and ONE can of Stella left to last me the whole evening!!! .

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHHHH!!!

Anyways back to business ;-)

My first DIY performance measurements:

Today, i lashed up Liz camcorder in the back of the NOSsan,

I have to say that I am so embarrassed of my piddley videoing efforts (blurred, rubbish framing etc, that I'm not going to post it here tonight...I will practice with the video camera, and when I get something legible I will post a link for your enjoyment..

From what I can glean from my (crappy) DIY videos, I have the following figures for comparison:

These are based on the start time being taken from the moment the handbrake light goes out TO the point where the Speedo indicates 66mph (should be about 60mph in real speed terms i recon with my wheel & tyre combo):

According to another thread the book 0-60 time for a stock K10 is 15.90s (but im guessing this is for a MA12 <anyone?>) I have the MA10.

0-60mph times

With no nitrous I measured 17.19s
nitrous run #1 I measured 13.08s (failed to put my foot far enough down in 1st gear to activate the nitrous system)
nitrous run #1 I measured 11..20s (mustered up enough courage to plant my foot in 1st gear with nitrous this time)


I will be booking in for a dyno (probably early February). That should be really interesting (an nerve racking in case im too lean) to get the AFRs for a off-nitrous run and an on-nitrous run.

in the mean time I'll be brushing up some video camera skills...watch this space and I'll have a couple of short clips up soon
 

Craig

Unofficial Member (Gold)
Club Member
Mate, that's terrible - you got any meths you can drink until you get some more brews in?

Good work with the nitrous - I guess that it can only get better + more refined from here on in (unless it blows up :( )?
Craig
 

K10

Ex. Club Member
i did a 0-60 run on a very optomistic g-tech meter once, in my bog standard ma10. pretty useless thing to say though, as i can't for the life of me remember what the hell I got :down:

good work sammo- thats quite a difference :)
 

daveeeeee

Ex. Club Member
no prob mate this is really interesting stuff, oh and i agree with ya about the asthetics of the exhaust manifold :grinning: any problems with the gearbox yet i suppose your getting alot of tourqes from the nitrous? does the clutch slip atall?
 

Speedle

Ex. Club Member
bloody hell an 11 sec 0-60 with stock manifolds and only NOS is very impressive! imagine how quick it would be if i fitted NOS to my twin weber setup :p

oh i just remembered youve got an exhaust maniofld fitted havnt you, but either way with the stock inlet very impressive!
 
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SammoHung
oh i just remembered you’ve got an exhaust manifold fitted haven’t you, but either way with the stock inlet very impressive!

I think the exhaust manifold will definitely be helping the nitrous run but off-gas I’m sure I have sacrificed some bottom end torque...high end off-gas is much better than cast manifold.

On nitrous, It’s difficult for me (novice) to discriminate high or low end performances...but it feels corker as long as the gear is right so that there isn’t too much load.


bloody hell an 11 sec 0-60 with stock manifolds and only NOS is very impressive! imagine how quick it would be if i fitted NOS to my twin Weber setup :p

Today noticed my fuel pressure regulator was turned further down than I should have it set at...EEK (1psi for the nitrous fuelling) so i turned it back up to 2psi today and it feels less aggressive now…LOL...I hope i haven’t melted something from being too lean on nitrous...now the power surge seems a bit more friendly!!....so 0-60 will of course be a bit slower with setting.

Watch this space for the 2psi setting with video this time too...I’m slowly getting the hang of this video camera...LOL

Hopefully soon after a couple of dynos, I'll have a better idea of where the AFR is on nitrous for a certain fuel pressure setting.....I think I might run it at 1.5 psi for the dyno.


The MA inlet is turd, but the nitrous (the injected oxidiser) is overcoming the incoming air flow problems (naturally aspirated oxidiser). But still a better inlet would perform even better on nitrous, but would be less noticeable than the difference between on nitrous and off nitrous.

any problems with the gearbox yet i suppose your getting a lot of tourqes from the nitrous? does the clutch slip at all?

Gearbox is holding well so far, probably because I’m not rushing the changes: Making sure the power is off before disengaging the gears and being patient with engaging the clutch until I’m sure the gear is in.

I have a 4 speedThe clutch DOES slip noticeably if I activate the system in 4th gear full power at only 50mph, but the lower gears don’t show any noticeable slip...(I’m sure there will be some slip though in reality)
 
OP
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SammoHung
Following an accident with my fuel pressure regulator (I inadvertently adjusted it with my left forearm while changing my oil filter with my right hand during a routine oil change!!!!), I blew a spark plug when the nitrous was next activated a couple of days later..(pop, pop, pop)!!!

.....<lesson number one.....chosing a hand-adjustable regulator may be convenient, but there is a risk that it may be adjusted when you dont want it to be!!!>

This was about 3 weeks ago but I have since checked for internal damage and foreign objects in the cylinders.....one of the valves had clear signs of a poor seal but there was no other noticeable damage....and no sign of any bits of sparkplug either....they must have got spat out past the exhaust valve...lucky?!......so, everything was cleaned and the valves were reground and a new head gasket was duly fitted....etc.

Last weekend (The Fast Show at Santapod):
I took the nossan up to meet face to face with a bunch from the Wizards of NOS Nitrous forum (what a fantastic set of people too).....in the end I was cohersed into doing my first ever drag race...EEEK

RACING:
After effecting a head gasket change and valves rework the previous weekend, I was reluctant to put the 988cc NOSsan on the track.....not to mention by own complete lack of balls to attempt to drive any car down the track at an event....

Having said all that, I did (eventually) find some small balls to give it a go pretty late on Saturday Evening….

To cut a long story short; the whole experience between approaching the track and crossing the finish line was a blur….but indeed; a catastrophic excuse for a performance (I really let the micra down….lol) After the orange lights came on, I realised the controller was switched off <AAGH EEK> :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: :redface: so I simultaneously switched on the controller and started off down the track (off gas until the controller had booted up)….and at least 1.6 seconds after the green light had come on!!!! :redface:

The nitrous worked really well when the controller had started up with the exception of severe wheel spin in 1st gear when the nitrous came in…..

In the end my virgin time slip was as follows:

:redface:
RT = +1.6
60ft = 3.06
330ft = 8.04
1/8ET = 12.31
1/8MPH = 56.44
1000’ET = 15.98
1/4ET = 19.29
1/4MPH = 70.34
:redface:

After breaking the ice I went for another go…but as I got to the front of the queue, the track was closed due to rain (boo hoo) ……but was great fun though really
 

curtis

Ex. Club Member
Still a good result considering, glad you went on! (Y)

Maybe the next RWYB you could go on again, but against me :p
 
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SammoHung
Cheers!

Yeah I've kind of toyed with a few ideas on the inlet side of things...(based mainly around Ed's original pioneering CBR carburettor mod back in the day) but with a sammo-style twist....GRIN...I'll unleash the details on this if and when....lol

.....but the thing that is stopping me from doing this sort of thing at the mo......is being able to flick the nitrous switch back to OFF again..... and being (almost) completely back to standard K10 engine...(silent running, & ace fuel economy for commuting etc)....


we'll see..:)
 
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