Knuckle bearing damage - can replace with K11 knuckle?

[egres_svk]

Hi there.

During past few days I've noticed whirring sound coming from front right wheel, in speeds higher than 15 mph. I supposed, that it wasn't the CV-joint, because it should click (not whirr) in hard turns (and it did, but only slightly).

Yesterday I bought and replaced the CV-joint, to finally get rid of the clicking sound. There was some hope it will remove the whirring, but of course it did not. The bearings were the next suspect.

Today I removed the whole assembly, separated the wheel hub from the knuckle and looked at the bearings. The inner bearing (closer to engine) was covered with orange substance - it must have got wet somehow. Unfortunately, the knuckle is damaged too - the surface where miniature rollers on bearing touch it is quite heavily pitted on 25 percent of the total area - see the photo for better idea.

If you would be so kind and answer a few of my questions:

1 - I have some high-strength liquid metal epoxy on hand and succesfully repaired some heavy scratches on bike fork, right where the bushings slide. Do you think it would be possible to repair the pitted surface? (Of course it probably won't last 10000+ miles, but at least few thousand would be nice.)

2 - It is quite hard to find a replacement knuckle here (Slovakia). I've found one seller on UK eBay, but he is not willing to send it to Slovakia and I can't contact him via eBay Messages (he disabled it :/). Also, the shipping cost would probably be quite massive. However, I've found some threads (one of them) where it is mentioned, that it is possible to use parts from other models ("wishbones and spindle-knuckle (?) from K11, hubs from Sunny.") So, the question is - is it possible to use knuckle from K11 or Sunny (non-ABS of course)? They look quite similar on pictures. What about other models? What about combinations (need to replace knuckle+hub+wishbone etc...)

Thanks a lot

 

[frank]

thats the bearing case thats pitted surely, you have to bladder the bearing surround out then fit a new one eh

 

[egres_svk]

thats the bearing case thats pitted surely, you have to bladder the bearing surround out then fit a new one eh

Oh my.. I did not even think about that If I understand correctly, the damaged part is an outer part of the bearing (= case) and when the new bearings arrive tomorrow morning, there would be a new case? (like this? http://www.micksgarage.com/img/td/57/el/QWB355-0.jpg)

In that case, everything looks much better now Thanks.

One more question though - any hints for replacing the cases? I suppose that I should gently beat the cases out of the knuckle and then carefully fit new ones? Is it a job I can do myself (hammer, wooden block, vice, micrometer), or would it be better to bring the knuckle and bearings to a garage, to avoid potential misalignment? Or will the misalignment correct itself once the nut on the CV-joint is tightened and I make a few miles?

Thanks once again.

 

[frank]

are you sure its not a 1 piece (twin) bearing ? http://nissan4u.com/parts/micra/el_...ont_axle_and_front_suspension/illustration_2/
and i usually use a big socket and lump hammer

 

[egres_svk]

Only if the twin bearing had two removable parts (like on the picture I linked in the previous post, but without outer metal ring). Ebay says that it has two parts + two rubber protectors too. Thanks for the advice

 

[frank]

ahh, my bad, i skim-read k11 knuckle
http://nissan4u.com/parts/micra/el_...and_steering/front_axle_and_front_suspension/
edit, there are usually 2 cutouts on the 2 bearing type ones (for drifting the old shell out)

 

[egres_svk]

I am back

It seems, that the replacement bearing was a little bit different in size - the spacer that fits between the two bearings was too small for new bearings and caused the whole assembly to be quite hard to turn. (Silly me - did not check with bearing on the other wheel, which turned ok, and assumed it was fine :/ )

After few miles the whirring sound got back. I have checked with car on axle stands and running engine with gear on, that the sound came from inner CV joint. Disassembled it, found that it was a bit worn inside, found a good deal for the whole driveshaft+joints, replaced it and the whirring was still there. Grr!

Then I've disassembled the bearing assembly and found, that the small rollers on bearings are damaged already - cracks, dimples etc.

Aaand finally, my question: If I didn't found the correct spacer (this is 7.05mm wide, outer diameter 40.6mm, inner 35.4mm and i need something a little wider), do you know where to get them? Or how to improvise?

Thanks a lot

 

[Belly93]

I am back

It seems, that the replacement bearing was a little bit different in size - the spacer that fits between the two bearings was too small for new bearings and caused the whole assembly to be quite hard to turn. (Silly me - did not check with bearing on the other wheel, which turned ok, and assumed it was fine :/ )

After few miles the whirring sound got back. I have checked with car on axle stands and running engine with gear on, that the sound came from inner CV joint. Disassembled it, found that it was a bit worn inside, found a good deal for the whole driveshaft+joints, replaced it and the whirring was still there. Grr!

Then I've disassembled the bearing assembly and found, that the small rollers on bearings are damaged already - cracks, dimples etc.

Aaand finally, my question: If I didn't found the correct spacer (this is 7.05mm wide, outer diameter 40.6mm, inner 35.4mm and i need something a little wider), do you know where to get them? Or how to improvise?

Thanks a lot

did you knock the new bearing in with a hammer? as doing so can sometimes cause damage to the bearing, which causes premature damage.

 

[egres_svk]

did you knock the new bearing in with a hammer? as doing so can sometimes cause damage to the bearing, which causes premature damage.

Well, I heated up one part - outside, that slid down easily (as expected). On the inside part I used a hammer, but via wooden block. Thanks to lubrication and clean, new bearing, it went down fine, no extremely hard hits. Of course, I didn't hit the rollers.

If it helps - both bearings were damaged on the roller surface, where the bearing diameter is lower. The ends of the rollers are chipped.

I am looking for a 0.05mm or 0.1mm shim/spacer, but can't find the correct diameter anywhere. I suppose cutting it from 0.035mm copper foil is not a good idea, as copper is not as tough as steel, right?

 

[frank]

the 100 lb/ft on the hubnut will squash copper eh, cant you drift the outer bearing casing back out and grind .1mm off it ?

 

[egres_svk]

Thought about that, but taking out the casing is quite a hammer intensive job, there is a chance I will damage it (probably not), but mainly, I would have to find someone capable of grinding the exact number off it. I don't have a lathe :/ In fact, even the exact number is a mystery - I would have to grind it down by 0.05mm or so and check preload after each step :/

Of course, I could try grinding it down with very fine sandpaper on thick glass and check the width in every part of the casing, but I suppose that would take ages. On the other hand, winter is coming.. there could be some spare time.

 

[frank]

i would,nt set any preload on a wheel bearing personally, there,s no "give" in a knuckle, i think you only set preload on diff,s and gear clusters etc

 

[egres_svk]

Maybe it is not call preload, but you have to set it, otherwise the bearings will crap themselves :/ And that's precisely what happened to me. See attached image, mainly point 15. and figure 10.13. If you don't use a spacer, it means, that 100 lb/ft will press directly on the rollers and... you know the rest of the story. If there is a spacer with correct width, it will stop the inner bearing parts from compressing the rollers and damaging them.

I'll probably try to grind the outer casing down a bit, I have two spares to play with.. If that didn't help, friend's friend has a lathe, maybe he could make some spacers from the damaged bearings, or grind down the casing.

 

[frank]

yes thats a preload measurement using a fishscale eh, i would still set it at zero personally tho, an alloy g/box casing only has a minimal clamping force, where-as the 100 lb/ft hubnut is capable of loading a hell of a clamping force on those little rollers

 

[egres_svk]

Exactly. And for that I need that damned spacer :/ The wider the spacer, the lower the preload. I will probably set it on something quite low - to make it turn easy with hand even with 100 lb/ft torque on it, as you say.

Btw, I've just found, that stainless steel razors thickness is ranging from 0.1mm to 0.2mm, depending on the brand. If anything else fails, I can see myself making a two-piece spacer from one of them

//just got to me - you were not saying, that i dont have to set anything, but that i have to set preload to zero. I did not fully grasp that and posted the Haynes picture. Sorry

 

[egres_svk]

Well well well. Bought new bearings (btw, external diameter of the casing was 0.5mm larger.. no idea how the manufacturer thought I should get them in, so I used old ones.. fortunately, the inner part was exactly the same)

Then I started to look for a spacer. Surprise surprise, nowhere to be found. No problem, I like to improvise The razors were a bad idea, the spacer has to be made from one piece and I used three.. Which would fall into the inner part of the knuckle.

Another candidate was a metal spatula with chrome finish - 0.3mm thick. I did not use it, because I was looking for something thinner, but if anyone looked for a suitable metal donor look for a spatula

And finally - a (cheap) source of 0.2mm steel: A box of airgun pellets. I used Czech brand JSB, type Exact, but I suppose that other brands use pressed steel for boxes too. I cut it with a small PCB drill press made by Proxxon with carbide tile cutter bit. If I were a bit more careful, it could be a perfect circle, but what the hell.. it is good enough.

Long story short, after fitting it and tightening the hubnut to 100lb/ft, the whole assembly can be turned pretty easily by hand. Finally Thanks for help.
(I will kill myself if it comes back tomorrow.. even if everything suggests that it shouldn't)

By the way.. If anyone needed, I can make some more spacers..

edit: IT'S ALIVE

 

[egres_svk]

Gentlemen, I believe a correction is in order.

Hit a large pothole last week and the 'metalish' sound from front axle slowly returned. Opened up the hub and to my surprise, did not found any spacer.. just a rusty goo.

I have new lower and upper balljoints, both silencers for transverse link and wanted to replace them anyway, so today I disassembled everything and will play with another bearing. This one does not look damaged, but I think the rust from the spacer may have damaged the bearing surfaces, so I am replacing it just in case. Found a good manufacturer that is said to have parts exactly matching originals, so hopefully i won't need another spacer :/