K11 Intermittent top end rattle (998cc)

S

schrockers

Hi chaps

The engine on my Mrs car developed a rather quiet rattle somewhere around the top LHS (near side) of the engine last weekend. I stopped the engine at the time checked things over and couldn't see anything to miss, it had seemed to have come from around water pump/ timing chain or top end around the tappets. Nothing seemed amiss the belts were in good order etc... but i told her to listen out of it and to keep her music turned down in case it came back. Two days later I get a call just as she got to work telling me the sounds come back but with a vengeance, it's really loud this time and the car engine was shaking enough the make the gear stick move! She was forced to drive it home but it wasn't there when she started it but started to faintly come in as she neared home (3miles).

I checked the car over in the morning and found the dip stick dry!! Now i'll admit i assumed the worst but still thought it prudent to top the oil up as the oil light does work and it hadn't come on. so I topped up the oil, started the car and after about a minute the sound disappeared completely, i assumed that this was for the better and there was a chance the timing chain was splash fed and topping up the oil had quietend things down. So as i've been doing major work to my Honda over the last few days and with work and being pressed for time i advised her to run it and to keep an ear out for the rattle. She took the car for a short run again today and the noise came back again after about a mile not as loud as before but then she only drove 2 miles, then on her return journey it came back but louder.

So can anyone point me in the right direction as to what to check as i'm not convinced her running the car low on oil is defiantly related to the rattle.

Again in short: Nissan Micra P reg 998cc with 62thousand miles
Previously very well serviced
No history of any engine problems
The car isn't ragged around and has no mods
Top end rattle around the timing chain, as fast as a tappet
engine recently run low on oil but the working oil light didn't come on.

Please help
Rob
 
Well Micra's don't have tappets, There Overhead cam with shims and buckets so doubt its that especially if it gets louder.
Running the car dry or very Probably hasn't helped, roughly how much oil did you put back into the car?
Also the timing chain on these is on the offside...
The gearstick wobbling means that it could be something in the gearbox / clutch or the engines moving ALOT!
I recently got a judder and my clutch ripped itself apart... Does the car get any harder to drive with the noise? Can you get right in close to the gearbox and have a listen to that?

This could be a whole lot of things.
 
Hi Dave

Thanks for the reply, well I made a start on stripping the engine early this morning and yeah discovered Micras don't have tappets but do have cam followers lol (should have read the manual first) lol
With regards to the oil: the dip stick was wipped clean and re-dipped several times (mainly due to disbelief) and the the engine had been stood on level ground for an hour, so filling from a dry stick I put about a litre in before it showed about a 1/4.
Yes your right the timing chain is on the offside my mistake but the noise is coming from that side (drivers).

I've since removed and checked the alternator, the bearings feel fine. I've done the same for the water pump and tensioner, water pump turns as it should and the bearings feel fine, the tensioner turns nicely too.
I've rotated the crank checking that the followers are coming up ok, and even depressed them to make sure they didn't stick but that was hard to tell and probably pointless.
The timing chain didn't look slack either.

Could it be a sticky follower or could the injector be making the noise?

I ran the car for a short while with the alternator and water pump disengaged and admittedly it didn't make the noise but as it's intermittent i'm not yet convinced.
I'm reluctant to strip the cams yet as i'm short of time until Tuesday and i know i'll have to replace oil seals on the timing chain.

Does anyone have any ideas of what else i could check before stripping the cams or timing chain?

Regards
Rob
 
Chances are the chain wasn't getting enough lubrication.

I used to have a Primera GT which had quite a bad oil leak on it. Anyway, you knew when the oil level was getting low because the timing chain rattled a hell of a lot more.
 
Thanks for the replays lads, i have managed to get a few hours in between shifts and decided on doing an oil flush this was mainly due to me hoping it was a sticking cam follower(Hope springs eternal) as i don't want t have to strip the timing chains or cams. Anyways ......... I did the flush and I refilled with fresh oil and filter then restated her only find it still there. It now is present only on tick over, if you apply the throttle after a little travel the sound disappears :suspect: I spent some time trawling the Manuel and found that the followers are shimmed so...... i will check the valves clearances tomorrow and also check the timing chain best i can. I suspect it's either of these two at this moment in time.

I've been doing some genning up and have looked at the prices of engines and am considering it may make more financial sense to just replace the engine with a known good unit and up the cc's at the same time. As there could be considerable wear on the bearings now (mind i checked the old engine oil with a magnet and there wasn't any metal shards in the oil. I take it it's not a hard swap, looking at the engine codes the box will still fit and any 1.3 pre coil pack engine will swap straight in only requiring the loom and ECU?

Rob
 
tappet noise is very rare rob, my old super s had a very worn 1 link in the chain that sounded like a tappet.
and a 1.3 is a direct fit if you use your flywheel, no ecu etc change needed
 
Cheers Frank

Well it looks like the rattle was coming from the timing chain, I jacked the engine removed the timing chain inspection cover so I could view the chain and found everything in good order. There did seem to be a little play in the bottom chain (lack of tension) but there was no side way play in the chain or obvious wear on the teeth, so I opted to start the car so I could try to pin down where the rattle was coming from. Again I started the car and the rattle came straight in but it was fairly clear it was timing chain related this time. In all honesty there didn't seem to be much oil travelling around the chain to start with but after a couple of minuets the rattle disappeared and when I checked the chain there was allot more oil going round. My Dad was there with me and we worked out there was a chance the bottom tensioner had been slightly sticky and was now free. So I closed her back up again and have let the Mrs dive her to work to see if the noise comes back, she drover this morning and said the engine was running quieter than ever so fingers crossed!

Good to hear about the straight engine swap (bar the fly wheel), I'll keep that in mind in case that rattle comes back.

Rob
 
np rob :)
you can check the slack of the 2 chains if you hold a cam tight and turn the crank back and forth, about 3 notches of lash on the pulley timing marks means healthy chains, and 5+ notches = pretty worn :eek:
 
Hey guys,

I know this is an old thread, sorry just need some help.

My partners k11 march has a horrible rattle coming from the drivers side, so I did a bit of a google search to help me solve it.

I thought it may be tappet related but I found this thread and found out that they do not have tappets.

I'm thinking it could be the same problem with the bottom tensioner being sticky, could you tell me the process to go through to get to the tensioner and how to free it up please?

I appreciate any help you can give.

Thanks,

Andy
 
if its the bottom tensioner you can see the cams jitter back and forward @ idle andy, but its a hell of a job to fix (sump, cyl head off etc)
have you checked the chains ?
 

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