Hitting 150bhp?

[Robert]

I'm thinking for the future, I'm getting my car looking the way i want first, but just trying to get an idea for now.

The obvious is an engine transplant, but i'd rather keep the 1.3 i think..

So turbo or NA?
What's the pro's/con's of both?

I don't plan on going on tracks or anything, but feel 150 is a nice figure (double standard )

Cost wise, which is cheaper?

And for NA, what would i be looking at to achieve this?
Exhuast, induction, cams, port & polish, obviously mapping..
The thing that is most appealing about this is that i can do it in stages, rather than all at once as I'd have to with a turbo.

Not very knowledgable about tuning as you might have guessed..

 

[Davey C]

Turbo kit in the for sale section will get you there... *shameless plug*

NA it will cost about £3000 id guess to crack 150 bhp. you talking wheel figures of flywheel? wheel i guess.

 

[Robert]

Yeah.
I did see your kit, but like i said im just looking at my options for now..

On a related note.. How much power realisticly could the micra take? Without having to do driveshafts, etc..
What would need doing for say 200bhp?

 

[Craig]

You could get 140ish N/A for about 1500 (more on this in the new year) - turbo has potential for more, but costs quickly spiral with both - don't expect to get greater than 100%VE for cheap.
Craig

 

[Low Rider]

140 ish for £1500 is simply not realistic.

 

[Craig]

Depends if you buy things new or 2nd hand, though - you can get full exhaust for sub £200, some DIY ITB's could be done for £200ish so say £300, then remapping is ~350 from Ed, set of cams, between £170 and £400, this should see you (IMO) exceeding 130 brake if thought through properly.

For 140+ you would need a 1.4 and some pistons from Matt HUmphris, however.

Craig?

 

[sph-87]

for that much money i'd have thought it would be better to use an sr20 lump, going to be more powerfull, reliable and much more tunable

 

[ollyc98]

I thought the gearbox was only good for 100BHP?
Cheapest way to get that much power is a nitrous kit.

 

[James]

I thought the gearbox was only good for 100BHP?
Cheapest way to get that much power is a nitrous kit.

Nitrous isn't a continuous 150 though, unless you have very deep pockets and a big N2O tank!

 

[whipit]

for that much money i'd have thought it would be better to use an sr20 lump, going to be more powerfull, reliable and much more tunable

Could do, each to there own though. Some people quite enjoy playing around with the 1.3, not always about the end result its what you achieve.

 

[ollyc98]

Nitrous isn't a continuous 150 though, unless you have very deep pockets and a big N2O tank!

Yeah get a mahoosive 1000lb bottle, should do a few miles, borrow the gas from your dentist.

Alternatively have a wide open throttle system, then you'd have you 150 BHP when you need it.

 

[Napster]

Depends if you buy things new or 2nd hand, though - you can get full exhaust for sub £200, some DIY ITB's could be done for £200ish so say £300, then remapping is ~350 from Ed, set of cams, between £170 and £400, this should see you (IMO) exceeding 130 brake if thought through properly.

For 140+ you would need a 1.4 and some pistons from Matt HUmphris, however.

Craig?

im agree with Craigs comment....although i atcually dont know whats best to acieve that bhp figure!!! as both turbo and N/A can

both have complications and money issues that require some serious thought i guess!

either way ur looking a spending quite alot on setting the enigine up and mapping. yes Ed can map a car within a day which is awesome, and thats really the final task unless you unhappy after a while but getting the car running properly to its max potential will always be hard i guesss and engine re-builds / gearboxes / clutchs all need replacing unless more money is spent upgrading these???

im no expert but i decided against turboing for that reason, but then i havent got money to keep splashing out on parts that brake every month and to me having a car on the road for like a couple a months a year is not fun!! but i guess im just worrying to much about the problems!!!

sorry
naps

 

[ollyc98]

Forget turbo, supercharge it, I think it's slightly easier than turboing and no lag.

 

[Ian]

if your staying n/a. with 150bhp you won't be putting out enough torque to kill a gearbox.

 

[Corbs]

£500 will get you an almera GTi with SR20DE, 143bhp standard. You can then scrap the parts off it and make some money back (I've made £500 from GTi parts before). Decent exhaust, manifold, intake (Approx £300 for all these) will see you to 150bhp or more. Do the full engine, loom swap and there ya go!
[/tongue in cheek]

 

[Robert]

Cheers for the response!

I realise an engine conversion is gonna be best power per pound, but there's something about the 1.3 engine that'd be cool to tune..

So,
exhaust setup,
induction,
cams,
lighter flywheel?

what would be involved in boring the engine to a bigger size? Too expensive for the gains?

 

[ollyc98]

Boring the engine would just make it weaker, the gains wouldn't be worth it.
I still think a supercharger would be the best option, mainly cos no-one has done that yet and unlike a turbo you don't have to worry about oil feeds and with the electronic clutch you can turn it off if you need.. Come on someone back me up here lol.

 

[Robert]

Someone's building one I think..
The white wide arch.. Can't remember the name, so if he reads this, sorry!

 

[Retepetsir]

Forget turbo, supercharge it, I think it's slightly easier than turboing and no lag.

No, its more difficult.

 

[ollyc98]

Compare to a turbo I would have thought so, don't have to worry about getting a manifold etc.

 

[Bence_Fs]

Someone's building one I think..
The white wide arch.. Can't remember the name, so if he reads this, sorry!

is it not solarice?

hes got an ongoing work in progress thread

 

[joelh]

yep thats him

 

[Antony]

yeah, craig has it spot on. believe me when i say that 150bhp for under £1500 is achievable for an N/A engine.

(well i bleeding hope so, i cant spend £1500..lol)

 

[frank]

robert

i would move the lighter flywheel further up the list myself !
mine was lightened by a local machine shop (20 quid) then drilled for more effect.
it wont give you anymore power, but makes the car more responsive (akin to shedding weight from the car)
if you fit it yourself its gotta be the cheepest bang per buck there is !

 

[Robert]

Yeah it wasn't in any particular order

I'm heading towards the n/a route at the minute

 

[joelh]

:wasntme: turbo turbo

 

[Robert]

Is there much more maintenance needed on a tuned N/A engine over a standard one?

 

[sonic]

I would think more regular servicing, it cant do any harm can it.

 

[Robert]

So it's less to maintain than a turbo..
It's sounding like this is my route

 

[frank]

supercharger supercharger !
http://www.datrats.com.au/MICRA K11.htm

 

[Alienfish360]

Compare to a turbo I would have thought so, don't have to worry about getting a manifold etc.

No, you just have to worry about physically fitting the supercharger in (new manifold and down pipes for this as they're in the way. You then need to modify the crankshaft to add a pully for the supercharger drive belt. Then after finding space, sorting a pulley and a manifold and downpipes, You need to have it perfectly lined up.

You then need to sort the ecu out still and fuelling and ignition, then get it running and fix the bits that break.

Turbo is easier than Supercharging imo

 

[Ed]

yeah, craig has it spot on. believe me when i say that 150bhp for under £1500 is achievable for an N/A engine.

(well i bleeding hope so, i cant spend £1500..lol)

Lets do a bet. I bet £50 that no one will make 150bhp for under £1500.

Nitrous is not allowed (inlet manifold on a K11 basically means it doenst work well anyway), and proof of all parts must be provided.

Give you all till beginning of may to prove me wrong...

Good luck youll need it...

 

[ollyc98]

No, you just have to worry about physically fitting the supercharger in (new manifold and down pipes for this as they're in the way. You then need to modify the crankshaft to add a pully for the supercharger drive belt. Then after finding space, sorting a pulley and a manifold and downpipes, You need to have it perfectly lined up.

You then need to sort the ecu out still and fuelling and ignition, then get it running and fix the bits that break.

Turbo is easier than Supercharging imo

get mounts and a blower off an ST.

 

[joelh]

ah but he never sed we could not swap engines lol

 

[Antony]

Lets do a bet. I bet £50 that no one will make 150bhp for under £1500.

Nitrous is not allowed (inlet manifold on a K11 basically means it doenst work well anyway), and proof of all parts must be provided.

Give you all till beginning of may to prove me wrong...

Good luck youll need it...

your on, cos your doing the mapping...hahahahaha:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[frank]

fairplay ed, thats an awesome challenge !
personally i think 150 hp from a 1.3 n/a k11 is impossible below 9000 rpm reguardless of cost

 

[sonic]

nope, I cant see it happening without a big valve head, insane cams and seperate throttle bodies, you just aint gonna get it done for £1500.

 

[micra_pete]

I'll add £25 to eds

if its drivable id like to add

 

[joelh]

lol i cant see anyone be able to do it unless they cheat :grinning:

 

[Ed]

There are no conditions on mine other than the block must be CG13 and it must be dynoed at the dyno of my choice (with no nitrous)

 

[solarice]

Ed so long as you dont "recalibrate" the rollers before hand we shall see, if i wasnt already over the £1500, i think...well pretty sure, in fact i'll check later as i need all the money i can find lol.

yeah robert its me whos bolting on the SC nearly there actually so will see what it does shortly, new engine bay pic will be up shortly aswell...if id not bought certain bits then i know id be below the £1500 but not sure if it'd have been at 150bhp and as of now if im honest i still dont even know what it'll produce...

oh and id say turbo or sc, its about the same amount of work...just different bits need doing.

Just had a thought, Ed can you sell on older bits to reduce your initial spend on the modified items.??? or would that be classed as cheating lol..

 

[Ed]

My integrity means much more to me than trying to make a point

There would be absoutely none of that what so ever, and its also beyond my control anyway since I dont operate the dyno!

 

[solarice]

good to know, but youve got to admit it would be funny just to see the look on the persons face...lol.

 

[Antony]

its not beyond possibility.

maybe i could buy an old "rally spec" engine off matt for £1500...lol

 

[Craig]

Lets do a bet. I bet £50 that no one will make 150bhp for under £1500.

Nitrous is not allowed (inlet manifold on a K11 basically means it doenst work well anyway), and proof of all parts must be provided.

Give you all till beginning of may to prove me wrong...

Good luck youll need it...

You will win many £50's then Ed - I can't see anyone getting over 135ish (after a little think) without putting higer comp. pistons - ~400 from Matt H, or the budget option of CG10 pistons - I'll bet you $50 for 135+ under £1500?

Craig

fairplay ed, thats an awesome challenge !
personally i think 150 hp from a 1.3 n/a k11 is impossible below 9000 rpm reguardless of cost

It has been done in the kit cars - the early ones made 150-160 bhp at about 6,800 with 8k rev limit (IIRC), but then the engine of choice is the CGa - there was one on eBay a few months ago.

 

[PeteST24]

Stick an RB26DETT in the micra

 

[frank]

quote
It has been done in the kit cars - the early ones made 150-160 bhp at about 6,800 with 8k rev limit (IIRC), but then the engine of choice is the CGa - there was one on eBay a few months ago.


craig

i stand corrected (i should have included a million pound limit eh !)
i wonder how much a group A spec engine, 118 hp (like matts) would cost ?

 

[Antony]

quote
It has been done in the kit cars - the early ones made 150-160 bhp at about 6,800 with 8k rev limit (IIRC), but then the engine of choice is the CGa - there was one on eBay a few months ago.


craig

i stand corrected (i should have included a million pound limit eh !)
i wonder how much a group A spec engine, 118 hp (like matts) would cost ?

yes but the 118bhp is an easy gain and many 1000cc engines are producing this now...

 

[frank]

quote
yes but the 118bhp is an easy gain and many 1000cc engines are producing this now...

antony

not car engines surely ?

 

[Ed]

no cars are doing this without a turbo.