Has the Snow Killed my Micra's ignition?

Right hello,
I have a 1987 K10 1.0 MA10 Nissan Micra, I have been driving it for years, and from this discovered that it is essentially bomb proof!
But when we had the snow back in January, it started to suffer a bit, but i still used it until finally one snowey evening, it fired up for a couple of seconds and then died. ever since then i have tried to fire it up a few times with not so much as a cough (it will turn over forever but never catch)...so yesterday and today about a month or so after it died i have started to have a proper look at her here are things i have checked:

1. There is fuel getting to the cylinders, due to wet plugs and trying the bit of petrol down the throat approach.

2. Plugs are not firing tried earthing them to the engine block, and there is no signs of any spark between the electrodes,

3. Had the Dizzy cap off and inspected it and the rotor arm, all seem to be in top notch condition

4. Cleaned up most of the electric terminals around the engine bay to do with the ignition system..

So i'm thinking that the cold snap killed off the coil, or that little rusty condenser type thing bolted to the body below the coil.
Does this sound like the most likely option? or have i missed something like a fuse...
Alastair
 
OP
OP
L
Not entirely sure, cant remember if I saw any when i took off the Dizzy cap...is there another way of telling...I don't fancy trying to get those screws off in a hurry..
 

frank

Club Member
you should be able to tell by the number of wires going to the dizzy (but we need superls or someone to confirm how many tho).
if its points, then the first job is to check there is power getting to them (i usually turn the engine till they,re open and then check for a spark by shorting the pointgap with a screwdriver) :grinning:
 
OP
OP
L
Yer i've done that before on the mini!
I have a feeling that it's electronic think there is 2 wires going to the dizzy one on the top one on the bottom.
 

superls

K10 Tuner
id hazard a guess at 87 being points.

my electronic ignition dizzy has 3 wires, 2of which bolt onto the dizzy, and a seperate one which is on a spade connector on the top which is earth.

not sure how many wires the points ones have as ive never had one, and dont have my haynes handy.

check to see it there is any power on the coil, the electronic dizzy models didnt have a balast resistor fitted but i believe the points ones did.

are you getting everything else as normal, dash light, heater etc?
 
OP
OP
L
Someone said look for a small box under the passenger seat, to tell if its electronic ignition, I took this with a pinch of salt, am I correct in doing so?
 

superls

K10 Tuner
i think so, the box under the seat controlls the carb and is nothing what so ever to do with the ignition.

best way to see if its points is to have a look im afraid, its only 2 screws afterall. if the coils got power and all the electrics are fine theres not alot else it can be.

try disconnecting the supression cap and try running it, but not for very long as it will kill the points, if there not allready
 
OP
OP
L
Cheers mate,
Thought that guy was talking utter karp,
The suppression cap? is that the rusty thing that is under the coil and bolted to the bodywork?
if so do i just disconnect it? i assume it is part of the circuit, so do i just disconnect it and get a piece of wire to replace the connection where the cap would be?
Yer it is 2 screws but one of them FUBARD so i would probably have to chisel off the head.
Out of interest what does the box do to the carb? and why is it under the passenger seat?

Many thanks
Alastair
 
H

hannibal

Guest
The box controls a solenoid on the carb to speed the tick over up when the lights, heater or rear defoger are turned on
 

RTLkyuubi

Ex. Club Member
If its got points the dizzy cap is held on with clips. If its electronic points then its 2 little screws. If it is a points car then replace them and the condensor as they are very cheap service items. To check the coil, plug a spark plug into the king lead off the coil. Put a permantent feed to the coil and a loose bit of wire as the earth. Spark the earth wire to the engine block as see if the plug is sparking. If it is, then your coil is ok.
 
OP
OP
L
Right well my dizzy cap is held on with 2 screws, so we know that its electric and points are now not the problem..
that sounds like a good idea, there with the coil, permanent live to + coil side, then a Loose wire to the Negative on the coil, attach the plug to the lead coming off the coil, and then earth the loose wire to engine or body, when earthed should spark the plug..(obv. plug is earthed as well)..this sound right?
 
If its got points the dizzy cap is held on with clips. If its electronic points then its 2 little screws. If it is a points car then replace them and the condensor as they are very cheap service items. To check the coil, plug a spark plug into the king lead off the coil. Put a permantent feed to the coil and a loose bit of wire as the earth. Spark the earth wire to the engine block as see if the plug is sparking. If it is, then your coil is ok.

are you sure? my micra has points and the cap is held on with screws.

liirge, you can check whether it's points or electronic by removing the cap and looking inside. dizzy with points would have few wires and of course, points inside.. electronic one will have only a metal plate under the rotating thingie.. also, as someone said, points dizzy has one wire coming from dizzy to the coil.. directly, on its own, not through a wiring loom.. electronic one has a plastic connector with three wires.. if you need it, i can take a picture for you..

personally, if i need to check presence of high voltage between coil and the dizzy, i just take out the center HT cable from dizzy, stick a metal screwdriver with plastic/rubber handle inside and put it somewhere near engine block.. so the spark can jump between the metal screwdriver and the body.. 10mm gap is good.. then crank the engine and if the spark shows, there is something wrong with the dizzy.
 

superls

K10 Tuner
Cheers mate,
Thought that guy was talking utter karp,
The suppression cap? is that the rusty thing that is under the coil and bolted to the bodywork?
if so do i just disconnect it? i assume it is part of the circuit, so do i just disconnect it and get a piece of wire to replace the connection where the cap would be?
Yer it is 2 screws but one of them FUBARD so i would probably have to chisel off the head.
Out of interest what does the box do to the carb? and why is it under the passenger seat?

Many thanks
Alastair

i dont like to call people really, but that box has nothing to do with the ignition.
yes the rusty thing, there shouls be a wire that goes off it and trace the wires and disconnect one. worth a try cos if its gone short then that will cause issues.
its not part of the circuit, it just suppresses the spark across the points, so will work without it but not for very long.
how did you get it off before? caps are onle a few quid as are rotor arms and suppression caps, so for £5-10 you can renew most of the ignition.
as below the carb has an 'idle up' solenoid, and what the box does is when there is a high electrical load on the engine, headlights, heaters, rad fan, rear demister, it picks up the engine revs, so help stop it stall.

another thing to try is as i think someone suggested below is to put a spark plug on the ht lead comming from the coil, ground it and turn over the engine see if it sparks, if it doesnt then leave the ignition on and ground the -ve terminal of the coil and take the wire off and it should spark.
 
OP
OP
L
Replaced the coil, bloody thing cost £14 what happened to cheap parts these days!!
anyway that didnt work, still just turning over and not even coughing!
so i guess I'm going to have to attack that Dizzy cap when i get back in a month!
 
Replaced the coil, bloody thing cost £14 what happened to cheap parts these days!!
anyway that didnt work, still just turning over and not even coughing!
so i guess I'm going to have to attack that Dizzy cap when i get back in a month!


if you dont have lots of money, it is best to determine the problem before replacing various parts :)

try my trick with a screwdriver, or with grounded spark plug connected to center wire.. (screwdriver trick is a bit faster)

if that did not help, i would go this way:

1) ignition on. is there 12V on coil?
2) crank it. is there 12V on coil?
3) insert something metalish into the HT wire coming from coil.. place it somewhere wherethe spark can jump between the metal part and body. careful, do not let the metal part touch the body, there has to be a gap... then disconnect the wire coming from the side of the dizzy to the coil (disconnect the end connected to the dizzy) and with ignition on, touchsomething grounded with it - engine body, negative battery terminal.. if it sparks, coil is ok..
4)connect that wire back to the dizzy and crank engine. sparks? dizzy sends good "signal" to the coil.. (and the points are working ok)
--now it must be something with the dizzy.. possibly condenser (i assume you dont have electronic ignition.. photo would be the best way to determine)
if the condenser is shorted out, it wont spark.. as you have said, if the inside of the cap and the rotating thingie looks ok, most probably it is the condenser or points.
 
OP
OP
L
Hey all,
Well this may seem like a long time ago...but i have just taken the Dizzy cap off...and well the results are something special...when the engine is turned over there is no rotation of the rotor arm...so from speculation i thought of 2 things...
1. The dizzy drive has lost connection to the Camshaft (it would seem unlikely?)

2. The camshaft is not moving...the belt snapped i assume?

Any other thoughts on the matter?
if it is the belt..whats the price of the parts, and how long is the labour, and is there any really tricky bits to it..(i have experience with timing in an A-series engine)

Regards
Alastair.
 
OP
OP
L
Aye, that's what i thought...dont know about the bent valves though...are these engines intereference? also its only ever turned over on the starter, would have thought that starter wouldn't have the strength to bend the valves.
 

frank

Club Member
Aye, that's what i thought...dont know about the bent valves though...are these engines intereference? also its only ever turned over on the starter, would have thought that starter wouldn't have the strength to bend the valves.

yes mate :doh:, you could take the rockercover off and check for big valve clearances eh
 
OP
OP
L
Sorry, guys...but the micra is no more! E272 FGY is going to scrappy's...i'm watching her now being hooked up to a scrappy's truck.
 
Top