Fuel or Ignition ?

H

HuMpH

Hi,
been running a k11 for around 3 months, it's been a crackin lil runner until I ran it low on fuel 2 days ago. It was low in the red but not out of juice, anyway put tenner in and away we went.. 20mile later it died on me at a roundabout just 1 quick splutter then died. It starts 1st time every time and idles fine but soon as you give it gas it dies again. RAC just towed me home then we he wanted to look into it a bit the problem seemed to fix itself and we couldnt get it to die. Needless to say hr later I tried it again and it died at end of street, I bought a new fuel filter and again tok it round the block.. ran fine and thought it was ok then on way to work it died again same thing starts no problem but wont go when revved. Anyone any ideas before I start changing things I might not need to.

thanks Ian
 
Yer seen this fix in another thread but they seemed to be having problems with no idle, still gotta be worth a go cheers. Better go dig out my solderin Iron.
 
mine would tickover for ages when i took the fuelpump fuse out then die if i tried to open the throttle, so maybe a fuel pressure fault ? (ie, pump :eek:)
 
Ian, you're only a few miles down the road, let me know if I can help :).
 
6.5x55 said:
Ian, you're only a few miles down the road, let me know if I can help :).
Click to expand...

Any help would be appreciated mate,where you at then ? I dont know a thing about these.Bought it for daughter but she failed test so we been using it for last 2 month and tbh its been running great till now. Just wondering if its anything to do with running it so low on fuel as in the past ive done the same with one of my mk1 fiesta's and ended up changing the tank.
Is there an easy way to test the pump or is it nr impossible cos its intermitant ? I was gonna try the solder fix just now but if it's more a pump issue id rather not mess about with soldering iron.
Thanks for all the help so far, great to have peeps making the effort to help me cure it.(Y)
 
I'mi n Rainford. How low did the fuel get? Could it have pulled some crud up and blocked the fuel filter?

Oops, just re-read... Deffo check the fuse isn't all manky for the pump.
 
Thats what I was hoping tbh, I bought a couple of new filters yesterday and fitted one. I thought it had solved the problem as it drove ok for about 3 mile then later when I took it out it went again, Luckily I was almost home so managed to limp back. It was at the bottom of the red but hadn't ran out, my fault as I was in a rush to get home and not wanting to stop to fill up :blush: serve me right.
 
It could be the distributor. Ours would run for 5 to 10 mins, then die and would not restart.
If left for an hour or so, it would start again then die 5/10 mins later.

If your fuel pump fuse is inside the car, it shouldn't be the problem. Older K11s had a fusebox in front of the battery - Very prone to damp.
 
Excuse my ignorance but does a car fuel pump run at a constant pressure or does it increase with engine speed? Either way, is there some kind of pressure guage you could plumb into the line to check pressure? Failing that, maybe get a pump from a scrappy and change it out (I'd love to help - never done a fuel pump :).
 
yes it runs constantly unless there is no cam sensor signal (then it cuts after about 5 secs) and anything over 3 bar is returned back to the tank via the pressure relief valve
 
Cheers Frank. Just been on YouTube, American cars have a schraeder type fuel test valve in the engine bay. You just screw a guage onto it and turn the engine on :). Also, there will be a large relay between the fuse and the pump somewhere that powers the pump.
 
yes, my relay is behind the kickpanel near your right foot, and no schraeder valve on the k11,s, but you only have to pull the pipe off to see if it squirts out from residual pressure (it stings in your eyes tho lol :p)
so if humph drives it till it fails, then checks for pressure and spark, he will be able to diagnose the fault
 
Well just tried the micra again, went for a paper in it and did around 4 miles without any problem then went to go and put more petrol in and it died about 100yrds from house :blush: It always starts first time after and idles ok, it could even run for miles before dying again or it could just die soon as I hit pedal. I could go and get a pump or try the solder fix etc but dont wanna spend cash I aint got and have same problem.
I will go and look for relay as I didnt know about that but if its knackered would I be having the problems I am.
Really appreciate your input lads, im lost tbh and need it to go london at weekend :laugh: Dont fancy garage bills but looking like i might have to take it in somewhere and see if i can get it diagnosed.
 
Rac fella was trying this Frank,but cos it started and idled and we couldn't get it to die he said he couldn't diagnose it.
Also just had it running on drive and got distracted for a while and the temp went thru the roof and boiled over so the fan must not of kicked in.:eek: so now have it boiled too :laugh:
Now i know why i love my daily mk1 fez, i can just about work that one :laugh:
 
well if it idle,s ok but dies when you gas it, it can only be a fuelpressure fault imo, iirc you can disconnect the maf completely and the car will drive (so i cant see how re-soldering the maf will cure it)
 
Ok cheers Frank, will just go scrappers and get a pump I think. Give it chance to cool down again anyway and have a go at changing pump tomorrow.(Y)
 
HuMpH said:
Ok cheers Frank, will just go scrappers and get a pump I think. Give it chance to cool down again anyway and have a go at changing pump tomorrow.(Y)
Click to expand...

they,re a bit of a mission to change humph :eek: i would listen for it running first, or check there,s a 12v feed to it,
its crazy buying and fitting parts you dont need imo :p (for the price of a £5 multimeter)
 
Mmm, maybe take the rear seat bottom out. Frank, would you hear the pump if you put your ear on the metalwork right next to the tank opening under the seat and turned the ignition to 'circuits on' position? Might be a way to find out if it's getting 12v.
 
6.5x55 said:
Mmm, maybe take the rear seat bottom out. Frank, would you hear the pump if you put your ear on the metalwork right next to the tank opening under the seat and turned the ignition to 'circuits on' position? Might be a way to find out if it's getting 12v.
Click to expand...

members have said they could hear it run for 5 secs inside the car, with the ignition on (my ex panelbeater hearing sucks, so i would need to remove the metal cover under the seat no doubt)
and there are the wires for the gauge (2 iirc) and some wires for the pump (3 iirc) to check for a 12v feed
 
pull the pump out of the tank iirc theres a strainer on the bottom pull it off and see tif the pump is spinning free

the ecu is sending the pulse to the fuel pump as its starting/idling (5 sec pulse primes and pressurises the fuel sysytem) , so the fuel relay is ok

you have ruled out the filter, only other thing to check are fuel lines out of the tank into the filter as there may be crud in the line, then check the injectors and fuel rail

not doubting ya but did you put the filter in the right way around ?
 
I can hear pump as mentioned, filter is on right way too. Can check lines next, now heres where I get thick.. what exactly do I have to do at injectors and fuel rail ? Sorry lads but I aint no spanner guru :laugh:
Thanks for input again fella's (Y)
 
the injectors are unlikely to block and clear repeatedly humph (even less likely all 4 together)
if you can hear the pump running and there,s pressure there, then its maybe the injector fuse near the battery ?
 
ahh ok, well checked all those earlier and all looked ok if ye mean the funny lookin ones that connect to battery tray bracket.
 
HuMpH said:
ahh ok, well checked all those earlier and all looked ok if ye mean the funny lookin ones that connect to battery tray bracket.
Click to expand...

top left one iirc, the fuseholder is very prone to rusting up (there are a number of threads detailing it)
 
Just checked again, all shiny an new lookin tbh. I dont think my fan is cuttin in now either lol checked relays etc but no better Think we deffo got some gremlins workin overtime here. Gotta nip out now so gonna use the micra and see how it goes on a run.
 
Well same old same old drove for 2 or 3 mile then died but started first go and drove home again, bit rough running on way home but got me back. Is it worth me taking it somewhere and having it plugged in summat to see if anything shows up ?
 
Yep its a 94, so whats best way of checking the electric side of things. Not had any luck with owt else so thinking it could be ign side.
 
warm up the engine then turn off.
turn ignition back on, open the fusebox cover by ur right knee to find the ecu consult port down below. use a paperclip to short the lower left pins for 2sec
the engine light should flash 5 long bursts then 5 short bursts to give a code 55 which means no faults logged.
then start the engine to check the O2 sensors, hold rev at 2000rpm and the light should flash on/off every 1/2sec. any slower and it'll need replacing.

thanks to pollyp for this
 
Hmm ok gotta be worth a go.. or we wont be making London on friday :laugh: Just looked at fuse box do you mean the 2 points i arrowed in pic ? and how critical is 2000rpm as mine aint got a rev clock in :blush:
030820101609.jpg
 
ok Just been tryin this and I cant get any engine light or any light to flash at all, even unclipped plug and put paperclip in from back but still nothing..:blush:I have tried a good few times and followed info above to the letter.
 
yours is a 94 dot like mine aint it humph ? (which should,nt have an eml)
if so, you have to use the led light on the end of the ecu (near your left foot)
 
Jeez Frank ur a star.. right ok well it seemed to flash as stated for a while then it died again. When I restarted car this time it seems to be running a lot worse as in almost dyin all the time when throttle is touched.
 
What fuse did you change next to the steering wheel?
A 1994 Micra should have the fuel pump fuse in the fusebox between the battery and passenger side headlight.

Very prone to to damp and a likely cause of the symptoms you have.
 
15a in right hand side,think it was second one down but was nowt wrong with the one i took out just tried it anyway. The ones under bonnet you mention all look ok and no damp in there all look new and shiny.
 
98twister said:
What fuse did you change next to the steering wheel?
A 1994 Micra should have the fuel pump fuse in the fusebox between the battery and passenger side headlight.

Very prone to to damp and a likely cause of the symptoms you have.
Click to expand...

thats the injector fuse surely ? (my fuelpump fuse is in the "right knee" fusebox)
 
do you hear the pump after it dies
when it next occures turn of the ignition totaly and then turn it back on see if you can hear the pump whirrring
its just that this was my dying pump symptom exactly
can a cracked vacume hose have this same affect ,,just suggesting
 
Yes can hear pump for short while as it dies and always for few seconds when re-starting. Local scrapper has a micra in so may nip down and see if it has the same pump, for the sake of 20 quid or so i may as well get one as getn desperate now and really need car friday :laugh: Will check all hoses again too, appreciate all help from everyone ye must be gettin sick of this thread now.:blush:
 
Just getting short on ideas now, so was thinking of changing it in case it is a intermittant fault with pump.. or do they just go altogether. Is there anywhere else that could have crap from tank when it ran low or does the filter stop it all ? Just that the car was running great till the day after I let it get low in red and re-fueled although I did 20mile before it died. Maybe just coincidence then that summats broke at same time.
 
the ecu will only power the pump for about 5 secs if there is no crank signal humph (for safety reasons) but will run continously while the engine is running
and running the pump dry will probably wreck it eh :eek:
when the fault occurs, does it die completely or just die at full throttle ? (ie, can you nurse it for a while at low throttle openings)
 
Yes most times you can nurse it as you say, but if I try to drive away again or heavy throttle it will die completely. Last time I limped home in it, it deffo seemed to be fuel as it's as though your just about to run out and like you say I managed to nurse it back slowly:laugh:
 
deffo fuel pressure then eh, and if you have no means of testing the pressure then you have no choice but to try another pump really eh
 

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