Fastest UK (CG powered) K11?

Ed

Ed

Fusion Motorsport
MSC Founder
Official MSC Trader
Got a picture sent to me today from James T, so i called him back. (Blue K11 turbo) he had been to have his car tested on a rolling road for the first time. I wasn't to happy about this since to be quite honest it has a map that has only had about 4 hours work on it (from scratch) and is far far from optimised.

Its first run got about 150bhp which is what I had origionally expected. However, James was then told that no there was much wheel slipping, so another attempt was tried. This time it got around 178odd bhp. Apparently his car was still badly slipping on the rollers so after a few more tweeks and 3 sucessive stable power runs it got a final figure of....

dyno.jpg


From only 1.1 bar of boost on a basic road map. Hes quite pleased about this and it explains why its eating so many other cars out there. There is so much more yet to come from this so its a very good early sign indeed.

Ill let james fill in on the rest. I only spoke to him quickly but I couldn't resist in posting this on the forums for everyone to see!
 
impressive, do you recon on more power when it's 'optimised'. or is it just to run smoother/safer?
 
Much more power. It really was just mapped to a point were I felt it was safe for use on the road. It was not mapped for performance. It was more to run the engine in and get some miles under its belt and a new exhaust on. Again I wont make any guesses on potential but the thing is hardly breaking a sweat at this stage.
 
Ed said:
lol, I thought it was quite amazing! :)

Been 4-5 months or so now?
Click to expand...

;) This is at the fly I guess?
Looks like it should comfortably make more pwer than Jo/John's with a slightly more aggrssive map, what happened to the rpogress thread for the car, is it in the member's bit?
 
kristian said:
Looks good.. Im glad hes got that kind of output to warrent the time and expense..
Click to expand...

Its not really been an expensive build. Infact it was done as cheaply as it could be but still to have been done right.

time for some wider tires?
Click to expand...

Not really, softer tyres perhaps but going wider just doesnt really do all that much, and your doomed in the wet.
 
Just got a call from Ed with the above news. Very impressive at such an early stage. Figures like that shows that there is a LOT more to come from this car.

Nice one Ed, and again..........lucky boy James :)
 
Craig said:
;) This is at the fly I guess?
Looks like it should comfortably make more pwer than Jo/John's with a slightly more aggrssive map, what happened to the rpogress thread for the car, is it in the member's bit?
Click to expand...

I dont think they ever even got 200 @ fly? James made his own post on progress stuff. I never did one in the end. I think James should go for 300bhp now. No reason other than turbo and clutch and gearbox and and and why it wouldn't do it haha.
 
Pretty mad! Good work Ed.

Bet James is havin alot of fun in that car! Just aswell its got the looks to match the power.
 
I would say 250 is conservative tbh. James wanted to run 1/4 mile last year. He will be running at fast show and the first avaiable time when the good weather appears this year I think.

Ed
 
Holy #'*%##@&£ poop,

Nice one James, nice one Ed, fantastic results and yes almost definitely the fastest and most powerful CG series in the UK...on a safe map too! brilliant.

200 bhp and 1200kg thats some sersiously good ratios

Dave
 
I think james once had 1000kg when fully loaded im sure now it will be around 950max :)
 
antony_aiken, full forged engine rebuild custom fms pistons and conrods custom head gasket balanced bottom end nismo clutch, GT25R turbo omex ecu. That kind of summarises the engine mods.
 
Hey peeps,

Thanks for the comments, just got back from APT. I originally went to get the 200sx fixed but while we were there we decided to put the Micra on the rollers to see what it was pushing out.

We guessed it would be around 150bhp, and after the first couple of runs thats all it did. When the bloke got out the car he started clamping it down some more, and i asked what was wrong and he said he couldn't get grip on the rollers! On with the next run and we managed around 175bhp which i was astonished by. then he turned round and said he was still loosing grip! Then on the final run we got 201.7bhp which is just amazing!

It's in such an early stage of its tuning i didn't expect anymore than 150-160bhp...no wonder it feels so quick lol

Here is my graph and also a video of the 201.7bhp run on the rollers....

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nismovspec/Graph2.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/nismovspec/18012007075.mp4

I'm off for a bite to eat, havn't eaten since 9am!! :E

Nis.

P.S Thanks to Ed for all his hard work!! It's just amazing...
 
Graph right way up lol

http://www.fusion-motorsport.co.uk/images/cust/james/Graph2.jpg

I still dont get why people put different scales on the graph axis they should be 1:1 grrrrr

In any case its an interesting graph, I'm going to give the graph my usual abuse now.
Torque is very high perhaps slightly too high, although with little to compare against its hard to say, and it is in-line with some of the better 16v engines, so that is positive if perhaps a bit too good tho. Ignoring this fact for a second just short of 210lb/ft of torque is very impressive, compared to a standard K11 CGA3DE which has 80lb foot, even an ST standard has just under 100lbft stock. anything 200+ will give serious traction issues. In fact that's more torque than a standard GTi-R. I really need to see wheel power graphs to see what the losses applied to this run were.
Another interesting point about the torque curve is that its not very flat. Again there are several things that need to be looked at to improve this. 1, the ignition timing may not be great, although I suspect in this case it would not improve that much. 2, the stock cams once used to about 80bhp, simply cannot flow enough at the top end (likely) and as a result torque falls of rapidly above their peak, finally it may be that the boost falls off towards the top end (less likely) since the turbo is capable of much more.

In any case sorting this out and making the torque curve flatter will indeed give the car much more power without needing to increase the boost. If we can continue to make this kind of torque (lets say 190lb) at 6500 rpm (quite low limit) that increased potential power to 235bhp. The fun begins when we take very rough guess work and approximate potential power from a this engine.

We can play about and say that at an absolute pressure of 2.17 bar (17psi) boost we make 208lbft. Lets say the turbo can run 1.6 bar boost, so (208/2.17)*2.6 = peak of 249lb/ft now lets say we can make upto 230@6500 rpm that gives 284bhp... Its totally feasible if the turbo can do it (which to be honest its limit is around 250) and the head can flow this (which it seems with the stock cams it may not). More testing needs to be done to see where the next best place to make changes is.

Ed
 
im probs not the only one who wants to know...

how much to drop car off with you ed and have it returned like that!?
 
thant ammount of power out of a 1.3 is quite a accomplishment, id be very happy, i bet it pulls really hard well done
 
hmmm makes me think i should turbo the cga3de i got in the garage instead of going to the peak of N/A tuning with it. Ah well either way the NME is getting a nice engine with lots of potential as proven.
 
k11stew said:
im probs not the only one who wants to know...

how much to drop car off with you ed and have it returned like that!?
Click to expand...

Very very rougly could be more or less depending on what you wanted, for complete forged engine rebuild, inc bearings headgasket etc for the CGA3DE or CG13DE your looking at upto £3K.

E-manage (ultimate - uk warranty) supplied fitted and mapped (with all options) would be around £900. An omex system would be around £1700 for the same, but they are far more capable. If you have the CGA3DE your only real choice would be Omex. Emanage is not compatible, since the CGA3DE is an european system.

Turbo, manifold and injectors would be around £1300.

Then you have exhaust, clutch, engine mounts etc etc etc..

Ed
 

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