Debate, which car is safer??

[NeX]

hi there,

i got into a bit of a debate as to which car is safer, a volvo 940 or a 1992 k11 micra.

now the volvo has no safety test record, no ABS, no airbags, and is rear wheel drive (not safe in the snow)

the micra, has ABS, doesn't have airbags, has a safety test, and is front wheel drive.

i know the volvo has more front end on it, but is it actually safer? i remember seeing a fifth gear episode where they destroyed a volvo with a small car, but the micra is a bit older than the one they used in the test.

i love the volvo but it eats fuel and handles like a boat

 

[karlj]

Look at some crash videos on youtube, both come out as bad as the other

 

[NeX]

i can't find any 940 crashes, plenty of the micra though

 

[Ed]

This cant be a serious question? I'd put money on the fact that your injuries in a 940 would be far LESS than the same incident in a K11!! The volvo has SIPS for a start. The K11 has nothing!

 

[Guy]

Pretty sure my 2001 1.4 K11 had SIPS Ed fwn(to be fair, I think it was only the last few k11 models had it).

 

[NeX]

i think that depends on the type of accident for a start, and the k11s have side impact protection bars,

here is what happened to the volvo 80MPH impact:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY

here is what happens to a micra 60MPH impact:

speeds are different obviously

 

[will930]

id go for the volvo anyday! its a barge, they are made from better materials and are stronger

 

[NeX]

ok here is my hypothetical test:

each car has just the driver in them, the car is stationary and is hit from behind at 30mph.
both drivers will receive whiplash so equal on a rear impact.

the car is hit from the passenger side at 30mph, both drivers hit their head on the window.
again equal on injury for passenger side impact.

the car is hit from the drivers side at 30mph. the micra's B piller collapses and the side impact bar does little, where as the volvos shifting seatrail idea moves the driver further away from the impact. the volvo driver comes off better, but with all side impacts there is little between them.

the car is hit from the front. the volvo has a longer bonnet, but if hit directly in the centre (maybe by a motorbike) the impact will push the engine into the cabin area, the engine has about 400mm of stuff between it and the outside world. the micra has more space between the front of the engine and the outside world, but also the engine is sideways, increasing the surface area, which makes it harder for the engine to be pushed into the cabin area.
so for a low speed direct centre impact i would imagine the micra coming off better.

the car rolls into a ditch. the volvo is 2 tons, the micra 1 ton, when upside down there will be more weight to compress the roof in the volvo, but also more surface area to support it. so i would put that as equal.

there is snow on the road and the car is in a low gear. the volvo with its 2.3ltr engine, close ratio gearbox and rear wheel drive, has no trouble breaking traction. the micra with its small 1ltr engine, front wheel drive and fairly tall gears will grip the road a lot better in the snow. i would put that as a win for the micra.

the driver falls asleep at the wheel, or has a minor impact that knocks them unconscious, and they press down on the throttle. the micra is front wheel drive, the first front impact will damage the front wheels and the car will stop. the volvo is rear wheel drive, and even if the front wheels become damaged, its powerful engine and rear wheel drive will cause it to "ricochet" off walls and other cars etc, causing multiple crashes (this is information provided by skid pan instructors on why front wheel drive cars get better safety ratings). i would put that as a win for the micra too.


so in my opinion they are pretty much the same but the micra comes off slightly better, plus to drive it feels more stable and responsive. at 70mph the volvo feels like a boat, wobbling in the road and has a much larger braking distance, it is very noticeable how much extra weight is in the volvo when trying to stop it, and it regularly breaks traction in the snow.

 

[frank]

lol, this is a no brainer nex fwn enter each in a banger race, and see how they fare

 

[Harlen]

I've always seen it this way - You could be driving a brand new safe and big car and get hit by a truck and get killed instantly. You could be driving a Micra and get hit by another Micra, or something even smaller. There are so many variables when it comes to car accidents that there really isn't any 'safe' option. Just because you're driving a larger car doesn't mean you're completely immune to getting injured,

 

[Ed]

lol, this is a no brainer nex fwn enter each in a banger race, and see how they fare

Agree put them against each other. There would be no micra left.

 

[tomwest]

there was a story from about a year after the berlin wall came down. a family of 4 in a trabant had a crash with an Audi 80 at 45-50mph. the guy in the audi drove home with a slightly dented bumper. the 4 in the trabant sadly died instantly.

back to the actual discussion:

quote!
the car is hit from the front. the volvo has a longer bonnet, but if hit directly in the centre (maybe by a motorbike) the impact will push the engine into the cabin area, the engine has about 400mm of stuff between it and the outside world. the micra has more space between the front of the engine and the outside world, but also the engine is sideways, increasing the surface area, which makes it harder for the engine to be pushed into the cabin area.
so for a low speed direct centre impact i would imagine the micra coming off better.

this won't happen with either car. in the micra, the engine is actually more likely to come off its mounts and try to "enter the cabin". this is because the engine, gearbox etc is all mounted across the car. The volvo stands a much better chance than the micra in this case because the engine and drive is mounted at the front(engine and box etc) and rear (via the diff). this means that the pressure of the crash will spread better through the floorpan and disperse quicker.

I had a 30mph crash head on into another cars drivers side front wheel (small hatch forget what it was. it had just pulled out of a junction infront of me). i was in an 03 Fiesta. neither engine became dislodged despite the large force suddenly applied. this said, the other car ended up with the bolts for the gearbox shearing. The report from her car was sent to me on my request. it clearly stated no engine displacement, but gearbox had seperated and chassis had distorted as a result.

 

[funkydoodycool]

A friend of my mum's has always driven a Volvo estate, and a few years ago she was involved in a collision with a Fiesta. The Fiesta pulled a u-turn on a blind bend on a known black spot on a major A-road. Mum's friend came around said bend, and went straight into the side of the Fiesta.

Fiesta driver died then and there, mum's friend was unscratched (physically anyway). This obviously isn't the same as a head-on collision, but she was told at the time that it was the Volvo that kept her in one piece.

 

[Ed]

A friend of my mum's has always driven a Volvo estate, and a few years ago she was involved in a collision with a Fiesta. The Fiesta pulled a u-turn on a blind bend on a known black spot on a major A-road. Mum's friend came around said bend, and went straight into the side of the Fiesta.

Fiesta driver died then and there, mum's friend was unscratched (physically anyway). This obviously isn't the same as a head-on collision, but she was told at the time that it was the Volvo that kept her in one piece.

That's one hell of a story dude. Worse nightmare possible. wow.

 

[superls]

is this a serious question? volvo for sure, the older ones basically used to be 2 girders for the chassis rails and one behind the bumper

 

[Ian]

That's one hell of a story dude. Worse nightmare possible. wow.

Indeed. I don't know how I could live with someone's death on my hands, even though its an accident.

 

[k12 hetty]

this is a bit of a daft question. Volvo would be the safest everytime!!
we had a volvo s80 2.8 yreg & it was like sitting in a bullet proof room! my micra 03plate i can hear every noise & dont exactly feel safe in it at all !!

if you asked puegeot or micra? id say micra as i have seen 1st hand this crash, micras bumper fell off, but puegeot had no window smashed up door and injured passenger.

but seriously id pick a volvo everytime wish we still had ours

 

[rustyroger]

I think the Micra might be better at avoiding a crash in the first place (primary safety), with better handling, brakes etc, but the volvo wins hands down for secondary safety (protecting occupants if a collision occurs), a greater mass of vehicle, built in crumple zones (not good for banger racing), SIPS etc. Volvo have an enviable reputation for making safe cars which has been justified on plenty of occasions.

The best safety device is in the drivers seat, used wisely it will keep you out of a lot of trouble.

Roger.

 

[NeX]

ok so volvo being safer in a crash, thats one aspect, what about maintaining control? the volvo lost traction on just about every corner, even slight corners, it feels very unstable, it floats on top of the snow tyres. i would feel safer in a micra because i feel in control.

 

[Ed]

Thats down to your cheap tyres probably.

 

[Guy]

As a slight aside, I once saw the remains of an impact between a Ford Orion and a Citroen AX (death trap if ever there was one :suspect. The Orion was virtually untouched but the AX was about 2 feet long in total .

 

[NeX]

Thats down to your cheap tyres probably.

brand new Michelin winter tyres but the compound is really really soft

 

[NeX]

As a slight aside, I once saw the remains of an impact between a Ford Orion and a Citroen AX (death trap if ever there was one :suspect. The Orion was virtually untouched but the AX was about 2 feet long in total .

the pic i posted up of the micra was what happened after an impact with a rover 75. the rover had a broken tail light and that was pretty much it.

 

[Tchaaa]

When I crashed my micra I was bloody lucky I hit the tree on the strongest point of the passenger side, it's what pretty much saved my life. Had I missed it, I'm going to guess the volvo would have been the better bet, there being more metal between me and my impending doom and all.