Cutting coils

karlj

karlj

I'm thinking of cutting a few coils on the mera, is it worth it or should I get some proper springs?

how well will they sit in the cups?
 
On the Almera, do you have struts on each corner? Because if so, surely as long as they don't move around when the car is sitting lower, they should be ok? Can always weld the springs into the struts as well
 
See this is why I wished I had suspension struts on the back as well, safer to chop the springs than just having them sit in the cups
 
Daniel please stop telling people to do that. It will destroy the springs mechanical properties which could lead to premature failure, and is a definate MOT fail if there is evidence of welding on the spring.

They are not really questions that can be answered without having the car there and the suspension in view - preferably springs out.

If the springs unseat on droop, wire them into the seats, or big fat cable ties, better still would be to weld loop tabs to the spring seats that hook over the spring and keep it in place. Droop straps can also be used in some cases, and of course shorter shocks are the best option, coupled with a higher damping rate to deal with the now higher rate (stiffer) springs.


When looking at the springs cut the end that is the least flattened from the factory, for example on a K11 rear the lower end is the most obvious to cut. Use a thin cutting disk to reduce heat build up. Tidy the cut end up, removing burrs and nicks that could act as stress raisers. You can also put a flat on the last section of the coil, to help load up the coil more evenly.

If you are not certain that you can do it and put your car back together so it is safe dont do it. There must be lowering springs available and I can't believe that coilovers are unobtainium, there seem to be a pretty big following for almeras.
 
Ok Mark, I do apologise. I've always been having people tell me that chopping springs is ok. Especially when used with uprated dampers and axle straps (I've got both installed and have no problems).

And anyway, I wasn't saying for sure that he Karl should get the springs chopped. If you can afford to get a proper set of coilovers, lowering springs and/or uprated dampers, I'd recommend them to that instead of chopping the stock springs. That's why I changed my chopped springs for lowering springs, because I was able to afford it. If someone wants to chop their springs, that's their choice
 
I'm confident I could do it but I haven't done it before so I thought I'd play it safe and ask someone who has had the experience doing it

The problem I have with regards to getting proper springs or coilies is lack of funds, unless I can find someone to donate for next to nothing
 
Sorry Daniel, its not the spring chopping that I have issue with, just the welding them into the seats, thats a serious no no.

Daniel said:
Ok Mark, I do apologise. I've always been having people tell me that chopping springs is ok. Especially when used with uprated dampers and axle straps (I've got both installed and have no problems).

And anyway, I wasn't saying for sure that he Karl should get the springs chopped. If you can afford to get a proper set of coilovers, lowering springs and/or uprated dampers, I'd recommend them to that instead of chopping the stock springs. That's why I changed my chopped springs for lowering springs, because I was able to afford it. If someone wants to chop their springs, that's their choice
Click to expand...
 
Oh right, I thought you meant the actual spring chopping. I didn't quite get your angle (thought it was a bit weird after seeing the pics of you chopping your coils the other day :laugh:).

I'm guessing welding is a big no because that shows the springs have definitely been chopped? Or because it's not safe at all because the spring won't have as much give in it?
 
Yeah, that much heat will alter the springs properties. It can be argued that the cutting can do that too, but in practice it doesn't seem to. Welding of the springs is specifacally worded against in the test manual.

Springs being cut is down to the testers discression - the test manual is worded that the spring must be complete, it can be argued that if both springs are the same, and the removal of some length is intentional that the spring is complete in its modified state. Thats certainly how my MOT tester is happy to see it. The springs are actually allowed to unseat, but they must reseat without assistance, the easiest way to achieve this is to ensure that they don't unseat in the first place. There is also a clause (that I'm not going to quote because I cant remember it exactly) That implies that modifiacation of the spring is acceptable, ie not a cause for failur in its own right.
 
Mark will the guys on RR have my head on a stick if I asked them for their advise? it's the rears that may cause a problem as they may be angled rather than straight
 
Really? I thought chopped springs was huge 150% no. It's good thing I know a few MOT testers anyway, they're very relaxed about my straight through exhaust system and awful emissions. I can kind of understand how welding will affect the springs properties they will get hot enough to pretty much melt them, I imagine. But cutting them only heats them up a bit (or at least enough to not want to touch them for a minute or so).

I can now also see what you mean byt the springs having to be complete and not unseat as well. My rear ones don't unseat because of the axle straps, so I'm not worried about them. It's the front coils I'm more worried about - they tend to unseat when the car is jacked up, sticking into the top part of the strut. I guess I could find a way of making sure that doesn't happen without welding though, just might be a bit difficult.

Cheers for the info though Mark, you've educated me somewhat here (Y)
 
Cheers Dan.

karlj said:
Mark will the guys on RR have my head on a stick if I asked them for their advise? it's the rears that may cause a problem as they may be angled rather than straight
Click to expand...

Do you mean Pig tailed, where the coils at the ends get smaller in diameter? cutting these is pretty much a big no no, unless you are into fabricating new spring seats and the like.

Do a search first, if you cant find what you need ask away. I think theres a spring cutting thread in the FAQ section.
 
No the whole strut and spring assembly is at an angle, I was saying to frank I won't be able to have a look until the weekend
 
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual_240.htm

Check out section C Coil springs.

It actually says "repaired by welding or damaged by excessive heat" so I suppose a tester could conclude that the spring welded into its seat is ok - but I think its unlikely.

I particuarly like this bit:

Shortened or lowered coil springs

Take care when jacking vehicles with shortened or lowered springs fitted. Provided the spring ends locate correctly when the vehicle is lowered into the normal running position, without assistance this is not a reason for rejection.
 
Daniel said:
Pretty much (Y)



It's not henious, just sort of frowned upon slightly :wasntme:
Click to expand...

You can get away with it on a k11 as the spring is same top to bottom, but it still alters the springs damping ability changing the oscillation also the heat generated knackars it too
Almeras I'm fairly sure are wider towards the middle meaning they wouldn't sit in the cups anyway
Almeras are fairly well looked after by the after Market world so buying decent lowering springs wouldn't be hard, that way you won't ruin the handling or compromise the cars safety, which is the most important thing given your current dad wagon situation
 
Yeah, I was looking at springs on eBay for my K11 (wanting to go lower), and saw some springs that bulge out towards the middle. Presumably these are for Almeras?
 
Daniel said:
Yeah, I was looking at springs on eBay for my K11 (wanting to go lower), and saw some springs that bulge out towards the middle. Presumably these are for Almeras?
Click to expand...

Dunno mate most likely but they may bulge out in the middle to provide the drop make the springs progressive?
 
Possibly fwn. If that's the case, proper lowering springs or coilovers is sounding like the only way to achieve a drop
 
But it's not my car we're on about here, it's Karls :laugh:. I think the Almera springs possibly have a bulge in them, those are the ones I saw. The K11 ones are just normal. I should have worded it better :wasntme:
 
Daniel said:
But it's not my car we're on about here, it's Karls :laugh:. I think the Almera springs possibly have a bulge in them, those are the ones I saw. The K11 ones are just normal. I should have worded it better :wasntme:
Click to expand...

Right I see what your saying now
 
Lol dad wagon.... I was only thinking about it nothings set in stone and if you're right about the bulge then it won't be happening for definite
 
i dont remember a bulge in the spring but then i never changed them as i bought my almera lowered. they do sit at a good 30-45 degree angle though eh? think my almera had 35mm springs on it and it still was too high! thats why i love that matt humphris can supply 50 and 60mm springs for micras
 
All of the car's I have owned had come with proper spings installed. Some of those cars have ended up with proper springs that were made a bit shorter.
 
Mine are proper lowering springs, but I couldn't find any that were as low as I wanted - so I "customised" them slightly to make them lower :wasntme:
 
my car passed it's mot recently with rear lowering springs that were chopped further and coilies on the front.
Just don't be silly and chop 'em in half and you'll be fine lol
 
I always used to think it was a mixture of "At the testers discretion" and "Instant failure because it's dangerous". I haven't chopped a huge amount off, and they are proper lowering springs anyway. The axle strap is just a precaution
 
Daniel said:
I always used to think it was a mixture of "At the testers discretion" and "Instant failure because it's dangerous. I haven't chopped a huge amount off, and they are proper lowering springs anyway. The axle strap is just a precaution
Click to expand...
Well the rear of this SR is low and stiff enough that it wouldn't move even if you asked it too. very happy with the stiffness. But potholes feel like the grand canyon now lol
 
Mine is fairly stiff too - the front springs do have a tendancy to lift out of the bottom cups when you jack the car up, but they stay in place in the upper cups. When you drop the car back down, they sit back in place. You can hear them knocking around when you turn hard though, which is a bit unnerving. And with 2 axles straps on the rear, the springs aren't going anywhere (Y). Just wish I had the money for proper coilies on each corner so I could go lower
 
I know, I just can't afford them at the moment. Maybe when I get an SR I'll do a full conversion.

Go for springs Karl, they're not that expensive on eBay, and you know they're safe (Y)
 
Shaun said:
benefits of front coilies! :p
Click to expand...

and matiz legs too (fully captive and 80+mm lower than some :) )

 

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I just love doing that - parking next to another Micra on high or standard suspension. Such a huge difference if they're standard, especially with stock wheels as well :laugh:. Always cracks me up (Y)
 

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