Cold air intakes.
- Thread starter Chrisxn
- Start date
Regarding your question...its a proven fact that a decent "forced cold air intake system" will give u more then 1-2bhp gain!
myne was fitted with a "evo sport" cansiter and had a cold air feed wich went on the end of it and down to the bumper...other then that i had just a janspeed backbox!
And with a broken throttel body at the time of my dyno run it still came back at 64.7hp....good ey,lol.
so yes a decnet cold intake will be a good buy!
myne was fitted with a "evo sport" cansiter and had a cold air feed wich went on the end of it and down to the bumper...other then that i had just a janspeed backbox!
And with a broken throttel body at the time of my dyno run it still came back at 64.7hp....good ey,lol.
so yes a decnet cold intake will be a good buy!
on my 1994 cg10de tropic...the micra air box was hellish restrictive as it had pipes going here there and everywhere which just stopped dead and didn't end up doping anything!
They say the cg10de is 55bhp standard...so if i had a workign throttle body then my car wuld have made more then a 9bhp increase with the cold intake and back box!
this is just my opinion!
They say the cg10de is 55bhp standard...so if i had a workign throttle body then my car wuld have made more then a 9bhp increase with the cold intake and back box!
this is just my opinion!
misterBaz
Ex. Club Member
Fair enough. Chrisxn...in my personal opinion you will be unlikely to notice the amount of power that an upgraded airfilter will give you, it is often just done for the noise difference.
A cone airfilter on it's own can also degrade you're power rating due to the fact that they're often ill-placed and just suck in all the warm air from the engine. This is bad. I'm sure you understand the reasons why but I'll include them for anyone that doesn't understand and doesn't want to ask.
Engines rely on a healthy mix of air and fuel, without one or the other the engine won't run, engines are designed so that the more air that is sucked in, the more fuel the engine will deliver, hence giving you more power. If you go right down to the molecular level, warm air molecules are larger than cold air molecules, thus meaning that the colder you can make the air, the smaller the molecules are in size, and the smaller the molecules are in size, the more air molecuels you can fit into the engine at one time. So...the colder the air the better. This is one of the advantages of Nitrous oxide....other than the fact that Nitrous Oxide burns much hotter than fuel, it is also extremely cold which cools the air flow and thus fits more air in.
So....removing your airpan and sticking a K&N cone on top of your throttle body is not going to give you any power gains because it's a non-enclosed filter which is sucking in all the warm air as it's right above the engine. This is why many people re-route their air filters to behind the battery as it is cooler over there. I don't know all the technical names for the styles of filters, but to increase power further, would be to enclose the cone in a box, then have a cold air feed coming from the front of the car leading directly into the box, this will give your filter optimum 'coolness'. The other thing to think about is where to locat the filter, lower down is cooler, but at the same time you run the risk of sucking in loads of water if you hit a flood.
As I mention you probably knew all that, but thought I'd post it up in case some people didn't.
A cone airfilter on it's own can also degrade you're power rating due to the fact that they're often ill-placed and just suck in all the warm air from the engine. This is bad. I'm sure you understand the reasons why but I'll include them for anyone that doesn't understand and doesn't want to ask.
Engines rely on a healthy mix of air and fuel, without one or the other the engine won't run, engines are designed so that the more air that is sucked in, the more fuel the engine will deliver, hence giving you more power. If you go right down to the molecular level, warm air molecules are larger than cold air molecules, thus meaning that the colder you can make the air, the smaller the molecules are in size, and the smaller the molecules are in size, the more air molecuels you can fit into the engine at one time. So...the colder the air the better. This is one of the advantages of Nitrous oxide....other than the fact that Nitrous Oxide burns much hotter than fuel, it is also extremely cold which cools the air flow and thus fits more air in.
So....removing your airpan and sticking a K&N cone on top of your throttle body is not going to give you any power gains because it's a non-enclosed filter which is sucking in all the warm air as it's right above the engine. This is why many people re-route their air filters to behind the battery as it is cooler over there. I don't know all the technical names for the styles of filters, but to increase power further, would be to enclose the cone in a box, then have a cold air feed coming from the front of the car leading directly into the box, this will give your filter optimum 'coolness'. The other thing to think about is where to locat the filter, lower down is cooler, but at the same time you run the risk of sucking in loads of water if you hit a flood.
As I mention you probably knew all that, but thought I'd post it up in case some people didn't.
misterBaz
Ex. Club Member
I don't mean to offend you, you seem like a knowledgable person...but no, not really. Panel filter in a box, in my opinon is a good idea with a cold feed going to it, however I just wanted to explain the concept of why you need to cool the air as much as possible in order to get more power, so that people could make their own decisions about what to do. I appreciate that it seems obvious to a lot of people but you would be suprised how many people have no idea and just buy a cone filter because "everyone else is doing it so it must be good!". I am a big believer in researching the topic thoroughly, taking lots of advice, and then coming to your own conclusions. It's how I do things, and it's how new idea's are spawned.
I have done nut and bolt rebuilds of several (older) engines, but I am no trained mechanic (FAR from it, it's just a hobby for me) so I don't know a lot of stuff, e.g, chris talked about two cold air feeds...I'm not sure if that would help or not really. If you had one cold air feed aiming at the air filter from one side then the opposite side of the air filter would be sucking in warmer air, mixing the air in the tube to a temperature that was slightly warmer than the air from the cold air feed, where as if you had two feeds, one on each side then that warm dilute would be eliminated...that's just an educated guess though. This effect would be lessened dramatically if the filter was in a box. as the air would circualte around the box and should provide cool air to every part of the filter...as for two cold air feeds going into the same box...I'm not sure it would do much. I would suggest tho that the effort used to add a second cold air feed would find negligable gains tho.
I have done nut and bolt rebuilds of several (older) engines, but I am no trained mechanic (FAR from it, it's just a hobby for me) so I don't know a lot of stuff, e.g, chris talked about two cold air feeds...I'm not sure if that would help or not really. If you had one cold air feed aiming at the air filter from one side then the opposite side of the air filter would be sucking in warmer air, mixing the air in the tube to a temperature that was slightly warmer than the air from the cold air feed, where as if you had two feeds, one on each side then that warm dilute would be eliminated...that's just an educated guess though. This effect would be lessened dramatically if the filter was in a box. as the air would circualte around the box and should provide cool air to every part of the filter...as for two cold air feeds going into the same box...I'm not sure it would do much. I would suggest tho that the effort used to add a second cold air feed would find negligable gains tho.
I storngly agree with what mister-baz said!
Buy a decent enclosed filter like a "canister" because that is a one piece kit e.g Feed pipe-canister-alloy pipe-throttle body
There for having the feed pipe end going behind the battery and pointing low down u are increasing the cold air intake and no hot air can get in!
sorry mister-baz already kinda said this,lol
Buy a decent enclosed filter like a "canister" because that is a one piece kit e.g Feed pipe-canister-alloy pipe-throttle body
There for having the feed pipe end going behind the battery and pointing low down u are increasing the cold air intake and no hot air can get in!
sorry mister-baz already kinda said this,lol
Alienfish360
Awesome Dawson
MisterBaz to clear up your comment about Nitrous Oxide, it doesn't burn hotter than fuel as Nitrous Oxide in itself is NOT flamable spray it onto a naked flame chances are it will go out.
Under the temperature of the engine the Nitrogen and Oxygen atoms split, leaving the dense oxygen to be burned with extra fuel and the nitrogen atoms help to cool the engine. Nitrous Oxide is NOT flammable.
Under the temperature of the engine the Nitrogen and Oxygen atoms split, leaving the dense oxygen to be burned with extra fuel and the nitrogen atoms help to cool the engine. Nitrous Oxide is NOT flammable.
misterBaz
Ex. Club Member
Yeah that's right, sorry, I didn't explain it very well. This is why people complain about the scene in The Fast and the Furious where the Eclipse gets set on fire and then it explodes....as N2O isn't flammable. However to counter this argument, if you set a car on fire that has a compressed canister in it such as a Nitrous bottle, then it CAN explode. It's happened to a couple of people before...e.g.:
http://www.saturnspeed.com/nitrousexplosion.htm
But that's nothing to do with the flammability of N2O. Normal temperature N2O is not flammable, but it does makes the engine burn hotter
http://www.saturnspeed.com/nitrousexplosion.htm
But that's nothing to do with the flammability of N2O. Normal temperature N2O is not flammable, but it does makes the engine burn hotter
Alienfish360
Awesome Dawson
The reason it explodes is because the heat causes the N20 to expand in the bottle, generally past the safe limit of the bottle. However, the explosion like the one above, corners were cut in the installation, specifically in the safety features.
If I remember correctly the bottle hadn't been fitted with a rupture disc (a device that ruptures at a pressure below that of the maximum safe limit of the bottle, allowing the contents to escape) This although make a mess, it won't cause the same mess as an explosion.
The bottle heater had to have been wired directly onto the battery to allow it to stay on like that, instead it should have been installed with a relay off the ignition so the bottle heater can NOT be on with the ignition off.
If I remember correctly the bottle hadn't been fitted with a rupture disc (a device that ruptures at a pressure below that of the maximum safe limit of the bottle, allowing the contents to escape) This although make a mess, it won't cause the same mess as an explosion.
The bottle heater had to have been wired directly onto the battery to allow it to stay on like that, instead it should have been installed with a relay off the ignition so the bottle heater can NOT be on with the ignition off.
misterBaz
Ex. Club Member
Unless it was a regular mains one that plugs into the wall (which I've never really understood...means you need a plug socket at the drag strip...which are available at some strips, but aren't exactly in abundance)
Anyways, going off topic as I usually do lol. Cold air feeds...colder the better...lots of factors influence the coldness...so experiment and come up with an all new solution to the problem and patent it and make millions and then give me 10% of the profits!! haha
Other benefits of an aftermarket cold air feed other than the bit of extra power and the increased throttle response are slightly increased fuel economy and the fact that the filter is re-useable rather than the stock ones you have to throw away.
I remember about 8 years ago there was a lad that used to come to a local meet who ran a Blue Mk2 Golf, he had cut a circle into the wing and the air filter was mounted so that most of it was sticking out of the side of the car! I never spoke to him, but I reckon it would require VERY regular cleaning!!
Anyways, going off topic as I usually do lol. Cold air feeds...colder the better...lots of factors influence the coldness...so experiment and come up with an all new solution to the problem and patent it and make millions and then give me 10% of the profits!!
hahaOther benefits of an aftermarket cold air feed other than the bit of extra power and the increased throttle response are slightly increased fuel economy and the fact that the filter is re-useable rather than the stock ones you have to throw away.
I remember about 8 years ago there was a lad that used to come to a local meet who ran a Blue Mk2 Golf, he had cut a circle into the wing and the air filter was mounted so that most of it was sticking out of the side of the car! I never spoke to him, but I reckon it would require VERY regular cleaning!!
Hah! This is quite possible the best thread I ever started! Off topic twice!
I was thinking, If I placed one filter in the regular place- Behind the battery.. And had one on the other side of the engine. I noticed the radiator was on the right side, which is also where the battery is. So I was thinkin the most of the heat was on that side....
But then theres the oil sump too..
I guess if I got a small one and managed to get it in the side panel on that side above the wheel arch...
I dunno. After much thought, I think it would be pretty pointless! Was just a bit of a novel idea really!
Get myself a forced air intake then it seems would be my best option! Thanks to all
Feel free to hi-jack now and talk about N2o, throttle bodies.. Golfs.. Whatever you like
Oh! When is the next meet? Just out of interest? Would be cool to meet some of you people
Mike wont like me askin that!!!
I was thinking, If I placed one filter in the regular place- Behind the battery.. And had one on the other side of the engine. I noticed the radiator was on the right side, which is also where the battery is. So I was thinkin the most of the heat was on that side....
But then theres the oil sump too..
I guess if I got a small one and managed to get it in the side panel on that side above the wheel arch...
I dunno. After much thought, I think it would be pretty pointless! Was just a bit of a novel idea really!
Get myself a forced air intake then it seems would be my best option! Thanks to all
Feel free to hi-jack now and talk about N2o, throttle bodies.. Golfs.. Whatever you like
Oh! When is the next meet? Just out of interest? Would be cool to meet some of you people
Mike wont like me askin that!!!
