Brake Upgrades, what are my options?

euro_micra

Matt :)
It's about time I replaced my brakes and I'm currently looking into fitting upgraded ones to help with fade, I'm also now running wider tyres so better brakes overall would be good.

I've searched the forum and net, and I've got some info out of it but it's all still quite vague.
I have 13" Micra steel wheels, so I know I'm limited to choice. But what are my options?

I believe:
Stock Micra discs measure 234mm in diametre.
Almera 92-00 1.4, 92-95 1.6 measure 232mm.
Almera 95-00 1.6 measure 247mm.
Almera GTI 96-00, Primera 92-96 1.6 & 2.0, Sunny GTI, 100nx 2.0 measure 257mm.
Primera 96-02 1.8 measure 280mm.
100nx 1.6 measure 240mm.

I can get aftermarket grooved Micra discs, but I'd prefer something bigger and also prefer to keep costs down by using stock parts.
The 1.4 and early 1.6 almera disc and calipers are almost certain to fit, but only real gain is them being vented. The larger Almera 1.6 ones may not fit under the 13" wheels. What about the 100nx 1.6's, 0.7mm smaller in diameter but also 2mm smaller in thickness, so a different caliper as well perhaps?
 

frank

Club Member
the 247mm sound like a good option matt, i had (stock dia) vented ones on my super s, but they felt no stronger, and the gti setup is very heavy eh
 

Rob

Cosworth turbo'd 1.3
Ive got a GTi front kit inc calipers ready to go on mine.

Looking forward to getting rid of the solid discs and brake fade!
 
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euro_micra

euro_micra

Matt :)
the 247mm sound like a good option matt, i had (stock dia) vented ones on my super s, but they felt no stronger, and the gti setup is very heavy eh
Ok ta mate, that's what I was looking for but do they actually fit under 13"s? Some say yes, some no and IIRC you shaved abit off the caliper to fit??

Ive got a GTi front kit inc calipers ready to go on mine.

Looking forward to getting rid of the solid discs and brake fade!
Yeah, even under normal conditions they're bad, but add luggage, passengers or enthusiastic driving and they're just terrible.
 

frank

Club Member
Ok ta mate, that's what I was looking for but do they actually fit under 13"s? Some say yes, some no and IIRC you shaved abit off the caliper to fit??
it was the spare wheel/steel that was catching slightly matt, the factory alloys cleared ok tho
 

Rob

Cosworth turbo'd 1.3
Ok ta mate, that's what I was looking for but do they actually fit under 13"s? Some say yes, some no and IIRC you shaved abit off the caliper to fit??


Yeah, even under normal conditions they're bad, but add luggage, passengers or enthusiastic driving and they're just terrible.


Or a great big turbo.....
 

Guy

Has gone over to the oily side...
Club Member
Don't forget the basics Matt, braided lines are cheap and make a big difference to pedal feel. Greenstuff pads are good too, reduce brake dust on your alloys from Nissan>horrendous to virtually nothing :).
 
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euro_micra

euro_micra

Matt :)
Don't forget the basics Matt, braided lines are cheap and make a big difference to pedal feel. Greenstuff pads are good too, reduce brake dust on your alloys from Nissan>horrendous to virtually nothing :).

Thanks Guy, I hadn't forgot about those, it's just that I recently replaced the front brake hoses, I did consider the metal braided ones but I couldn't justify the cost of £65 for the pair at the time. I'll probably be getting the EBC Greenstuff pads too whatever calipers I get.
 
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euro_micra

euro_micra

Matt :)
Feck, bigger brakes are definately on the cards, had to perform an emergency stop for the first time with these wider tyres, after some guy jumped infront of me while I'm braking for traffic lights and took all my braking space, 1" between me and him, good job I was quick. But there was no tyre squeal and it felt quite gentle really, compared to stock tyres, so there must be some room for improvement.

My car doesn't have ABS, so does the almera I take them off need to be without ABS too, or can I use those with ABS? As some sites have parts listed for each, but they look/cost the same, so I'm unsure what the differences are.
 
Matt I have b13/n14 brakes on mine and the only difference between them and stock k11 brakes are the b13/n14 use vented discs, but that said I have more faith in my brakes than stock k11 brakes
 

pollyp

Club Member
the k11 abs sensors consist of a hall sensor in the hub upright and the rotating abs ring on the outer CV joint.
has nothing to do with the calipers or disc.

imo ABS isn't mainly to reduce stopping distances but rather instead it tries to provide some steering control whilst threshold braking so the driver can steer away from the obstical (provided they haven't soiled emselves yet).

it works by crudely modulating/pulsing the brakes fully on/off to balance between maximum braking force when on and lateral steering grip when off and letting the tyres rotate n grip the tarmac. the moment it has to release the brakes to allow the tyre to spin back up n regain lateral grip, you've potentially lost a moment of braking hence longer braking distance & time.

on the other hand it's common sense that if a driver just simply stamps hard on the brake and locks the wheels, you won't have as much potential braking force and no steering control

the best braking force you can acheive for a particular "tyre" is the point just before the wheel locks ie. Threshold Braking, as used in motor racing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_braking

on a side note: during trackdays with upgraded pulsar front brakes upto temperature and ABS on, the ABS tends to activate prematurely and really unsettles the balance of the car so i was abit cautious. when I turned ABS off it was dramatically much more stable under threshold braking and i could fully utilise the power of the GTIR brakes.

-------------------------------

ok lets work back systematically through the braking system:

Tyres - k you upgraded to grippier tyre compound which can withstand a higher braking force before breaking traction. So the braking power required to get the optimum braking force out of them is set higher, as proven by ur lack of tyre screech cos there's more grip than what the brakes can throw at it.

Discs - are they smooth and uncontaminated with no grease/oil

Pads (important) - different pads display various behaviour/character as to how much "coefficient of friction/braking" they can provide at certain temperatures.
some provide their most optimum braking during high/med/low operating temps. some have a wide optimum operating temperature range and some don't.

so its very important to choose the type of pad material with the optimum operating heat range thats suitable for ur application (ie low heat street use).
if using say high heat trackday pads under low heat street roads, they may not (or take awhile to) get upto working temperature so you may have minimal or no braking force when you need it.
if using a low heat street pad under high heat loads (trackdays or steep downhill braking with a heavy load), the pads could be pushed beyond their maximum operating temp and begin to fade

has the new pads been bedding-In? to get the most out of the pads & discs you have to go through a bedding procedure which cleans the disc from the previous pad material, cures the pad binding material and ensures the pad & disc surfaces match and fully contact each other.

make sure the pads slide along the pad carrier freely

Calipers - does the piston & guide pins slide in n out freely without any binding/seizing at all? no air in the fluid.

Brake pedal - is the pedal operating range correct? so the master cylinder piston is fully extended when the pedal is resting fully up and the piston travels all the way in just before the pedal reaches the floor/bulkhead (can be tested when say ur bleeding the brakes)

Driver Psychology - i personally find that braking under stressful demands or startle is different to when braking intentially in a controlled condition.

when I'm like testing/bedding my brakes on a quiet road or braking for a corner during trackdays I can brake as hard as i can till my face tears off

but when I have to brake unexpectedly (someone suddenly pulls out or motorway congestion suddenly halts) i sometimes feel as though I'm not pushing the brake as hard as i know i can. it's like my startled brain didn't wanna push too hard to lock the brakes and make the person behind rear end me hence kinda hold back abit. or maybe twas cos the brake pads were still stone cold and takes afew millisec to get upto temp before beginning to provide good braking
 
Matt I have b13/n14 brakes on mine and the only difference between them and stock k11 brakes are the b13/n14 use vented discs, but that said I have more faith in my brakes than stock k11 brakes

Hi, How .mm washer use for b13/n14 -240mm brakes? Thanks:)
 
Sorry for digging this old topic out again. But I really need some help from you guys.
Recently I got 1 set of calipers from N15 Nissan Almera 1.6, car build on Aug 1998 Japan. including mounting bracket and almost new pads and discs.
I thought the car is a None-ABS model.
But on the calipers, I didn't see 22V only 3

I think the ABS model use 252mm and 20mm disc
My question is. can K11 use a 252mm disc?
I know this is covered many times. But most people use a 247mm None ABS caliper setup.
Can I use this caliper and brake setup with a 2mm washer in 14inch steel rim?

Thank you in advance
 
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