Bizarre Crank But No Start After Coilpack Change

So my 2002 K11 Coilpack 1.0 has been off the road for around a month now due to not starting and I still can't figure out the problem.

I should point out that up until this point the car was starting every time, every day, week in and week out no problem whatsoever and other than a slight loss in power (suspected weak coilpack under full load) the engine was running superb, smooth and quiet, no smoke, no smells, no squeeks, squeels or bangs.
So having two entire sets of coilpacks (x8) to hand in my cupboard, I got to swapping out coilpacks, driving the car to test, swapping out another etc but by the time I had swapped 2/4 cyls with the problem still present and two cyls still to swap, the car refused to start up again, hmmm very odd I thought, a bad coilpack wouldn't stop the car running it would simply misfire on that cylinder. I checked and rechecked the connections regardless, checked I hadn't knocked out the crank sensor, or any other sensors, all being good I wondered if I had somehow miraculously blown a fuse, checked fuses... all good. Bear in mind that while cranking the car doesn't even attempt to catch.

At this point I started suspecting NATS kicking in and Immobilizing the car, perhaps a weird glitch whereby the Immobilizer has blacklisted my key, I know old Nissans can glitch out and engage NATS for no apparent reason, so I downloaded Nissan Consult and also Nissan Data Scan II (will refer to as NDIS here on in) and ordered an FTDI KKL K-Line comms/diag cable. I also downloaded a "Siemens NATS Pin code generator" and have the 4 digit pin code to reprogram. Upon the cable arriving I installed all the FTDI drivers and set up the comm ports to match etc etc, turned ignition on and told NDIS to find the ecu. NDIS reported "ECU ID FE- active" but would not connect to the ECU, just kept saying "connection failed".... I tried everything yet no amount of tinkering would make it connect. I tried Nissan Consult, it couldn't even find a ECU, No VM/VI present. So I tried ECUtalk, that also failed to speak to ECU. Finally I plugged in my ELM327 bluetooth dongle and loaded up Torque on android phone, that has always worked for my K11's in the past.... nope Torque could not connect to any protocol.

At this point I condemned the ECU, bad ECU obviously, right? Well £20 lighter and a DPD van later I plug in the replacement used ECU, same serials ect, the right ECU and....exact same thing, absolutely no amount of efforts or program/cable will connect to the new ECU either. Again it sees an ECU "ECU ID FE- active" or "ECU ID FC- active". Severely pissed off at this point and completely out of ideas as to why the ECU won't connect to diagnostics and why this even happened in the first place when all I did was chop and change some coil packs while engine was off... Maybe my OBD2 port is bust, but then my elm adapter lights up every light when plugged in and NDIS at least recognizes a presence, very odd.

I was wondering if any wise souls on here could analyze this for me and throw out some ideas, I'm totally and completely bewildered as to what's going on.

**EDIT** The NATS security light on dash blinks every few seconds while key is in ignition pos 1,2 or cranking....also blinks every few seconds when there's no key in, but doesn't stay on as a solid red light, not sure what this means.
 

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No problem it looks very interesting and useful. I just found the other day when I was looking up possible causes. For my Bluetooth device not making a successful connection with ecu.
The problem just sounded familiar to what I experienced.
And being a beginner so far I have decided. I would maybe try a different device. With this multimeter option being a good back-up.
I just think that the device I used was not compatible.

Sent from my ASUS_T00P using Micra Sports Club mobile app
 
No problem it looks very interesting and useful. I just found the other day when I was looking up possible causes. For my Bluetooth device not making a successful connection with ecu.
The problem just sounded familiar to what I experienced.
And being a beginner so far I have decided. I would maybe try a different device. With this multimeter option being a good back-up.
I just think that the device I used was not compatible.

Sent from my ASUS_T00P using Micra Sports Club mobile app
That looks like a Canbus termination test.
I thought these cars pre-dated OBD-II ?

I had several days of head scratching with OBD-II on my sons Ford Focus.
Had to resolder a dashboard connector and reset all the modules before the immobilizer would release.

My K11 is a 2002, I think OBD2 became mandatory in 2002 mine uses a 16 pin OBD2 port, I do not have a consult port. I have no idea what is wrong with mine, though starting to wonder if it is perhaps a dodgy connector/module or something else electrical. I'm useless with auto electrics, I'm more mechanically minded.
 
If the bus test described above doesnt show 60 Ohms you know what the problem is, the challenge is finding it.
A damaged cable or loose multiplug will cause a loss of communications between modules, if the immobiliser sensor cannot tell the ecu (PCM) the key is ok the car will not fire but it may crank.

OK, but wouldn't the NATS security light stay on as a solid red light in that case, rather than blink?
 
Hmmm, I need to do some reading up, NDIS looks like a useful thing to have.

You car has its own private local internet where all the electronics can send messages between modules.
The testing video above should give an idea if the wiring is OK.

You need a multimeter (or a mate that has one) and check with the ignition off at the OBD port between pins 6 and 14View attachment 64375



OBD2 IS easier to use, except my ECU has no comms, comms is down for some reason, I'm now sitting on the conclusion that my ECU isn't being powered up, can you or anyone else tell me, where is the ECU or ENG CONTROL relay? I would like to test that
 
So, its been sitting around not running for a while but a fair few turns of the crank.
Stick a charger on it for a bit and see if the ECU wakes up after that.

don't have a charger, but have a 2nd car to connect jumps too, the problem isn't the battery man, it cranks strongly, power in battery.
 
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don't have a charger
When you turn the key, does the fuel pump run ?
If you pull out a plug after cranking does it have fuel on it ?

I read something about MAF/TPS sensor wiring too

"The throttle body has an integrated air flow meter. The solder joints on the PCB can fail with age, but you can open the casing, resolder the joints and seal it up again. "

Dude it's a 2002 Coilpack I don't have an integrated circuitry maf, My maf is a removeable self contained chip that slots into the side of the TB, nothing to solder....My maf is BRAND NEW genuine Bosch maf, maf isn't the issue. As I say the issue is the ECU not powering up, I don't even have check engine light showing up in IGN 2 pos.....so it's not powering up, checking relays atm.
 
check engine light flashes rapidly for NATS interference during starting attempts

Solid lit when key is at accessory

Attempt to start the car the light should go out during start attempts and stay out if the engine is running

Same light is present on the back of the ECU and it's red

The red LED on the dashboard below the heater controls sort of in the middle doesn't do anything interesting immobiliser/alarm wise, it's just a theft deterrent that flashes when there is no key in the ignition, and stops flashing once the key is in there
 
check engine light flashes rapidly for NATS interference during starting attempts

Solid lit when key is at accessory

Attempt to start the car the light should go out during start attempts and stay out if the engine is running

Same light is present on the back of the ECU and it's red

The red LED on the dashboard below the heater controls sort of in the middle doesn't do anything interesting immobiliser/alarm wise, it's just a theft deterrent that flashes when there is no key in the ignition, and stops flashing once the key is in there

Ok, it flashes even when key is in, I have absolutely no Check Engine light whatsoever during IGN pos 2 test position or when starting, no ecu comms....as I say it's clear the issue is no power to ECU for some reason, people keep giving me advice based on a powered up ecu, my ECU has no power going to it, this is what I'm trying to find out why.
 
I can't think of any reason the ECU would have no power, the connector is bolted into it and can't come loose and it's unlikely a wire has broken, although possible I suppose that it's been chewed through. Much more likely that the ECU is broken internally, but you've already changed the ECU out ruling out that possibility. I'm as stumped as you are

I think based on what I've read you can also rule out ignition barrel problems which is common on this car, because if the ignition barrel was the problem, one of the two ECU and key/chip combinations would have caused the rapid flashing of the check engine light

hairline crack in a fuse? loose wire on a fuse holder? Burnt wire insulation causing a short?

worst coming to worst would be a full loom replacement
 
I can't think of any reason the ECU would have no power, the connector is bolted into it and can't come loose and it's unlikely a wire has broken, although possible I suppose that it's been chewed through. Much more likely that the ECU is broken internally, but you've already changed the ECU out ruling out that possibility. I'm as stumped as you are

I think based on what I've read you can also rule out ignition barrel problems which is common on this car, because if the ignition barrel was the problem, one of the two ECU and key/chip combinations would have caused the rapid flashing of the check engine light

hairline crack in a fuse? loose wire on a fuse holder? Burnt wire insulation causing a short?

worst coming to worst would be a full loom replacement

Those bottom 3 issues you suggested are still to be checked but I'm thinking it may be one of those...also where is the MAIN RELAY on a 2002 K11? from my reading I see on most cars the main relay wakes up ecu and fuel pump....ignition barrel may be fine but what about the ignition switch?
 
if I remember correctly the ignition switch going bad on these causes a grinding noise after the car starts, caused by the starter motor not disengaging quickly enough, but that's about it

There are fuses and relays above the OBD port, there are 2 lots of them in the engine bay on some and 1 lot on others.
 
if I remember correctly the ignition switch going bad on these causes a grinding noise after the car starts, caused by the starter motor not disengaging quickly enough, but that's about it

There are fuses and relays above the OBD port, there are 2 lots of them in the engine bay on some and 1 lot on others.

The starter motor does overdrive on start up, probably due to ign switch but was still starting ok... yep fuses by OBD and in engine bay, checked them all.... interestingly the fuel pump doesn't seem to run, can't hear it priming, no click that I usually hear either, so my thoughts turned to the Fuel Pump Relay which also I believe is referred to as the Main Relay that controls fuel pump AND ECU, made perfect sense...but I've checked the relay with pos and neg wires rigged to battery, the relay clicks just fine, but swapped it anyway. Still no fuel pump or ECU.
 
The starter motor does overdrive on start up, probably due to ign switch but was still starting ok... yep fuses by OBD and in engine bay, checked them all.... interestingly the fuel pump doesn't seem to run, can't hear it priming, no click that I usually hear either, so my thoughts turned to the Fuel Pump Relay which also I believe is referred to as the Main Relay that controls fuel pump AND ECU, made perfect sense...but I've checked the relay with pos and neg wires rigged to battery, the relay clicks just fine, but swapped it anyway. Still no fuel pump or ECU.

NATS prevents the injectors from working, but fuel pump should still work if it was a NATS issue

Does sound like a bigger wiring loom issue

There are videos on youtube that show how to check various 3 pin and 4 pin relays, sometimes they can still click but be broken if there isn't the correct amount of resistance between certain pins (from memory between 70 and 130 ohms is good), or they can click but not work under load
 
Even after switching the fuel pump relay (despite it clicking) for another identical relay (fan relay I think) which also clicks, still no spark, no fuel pump and no comms/CEL. I haven't probed the connector that the fuel pump relay slots into for voltage as it's a real pig to access without removing the dash but I'll get a long length of wire and connect one end to the multimeter probes and tickle each terminal to see if any are giving 12/13 volts.
 
Even after switching the fuel pump relay (despite it clicking) for another identical relay (fan relay I think) which also clicks, still no spark, no fuel pump and no comms/CEL. I haven't probed the connector that the fuel pump relay slots into for voltage as it's a real pig to access without removing the dash but I'll get a long length of wire and connect one end to the multimeter probes and tickle each terminal to see if any are giving 12/13 volts.
How did you get on with your k11 Marc? This is a very interesting read, as my k11 has experienced the identical issue, and I'm at the stage now of putting a donor ecu in the car, with no luck.
 
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