This is just a crazy idea, and i'm not sure if it's been done or not, but has anyone ever created a hood scoop and connected it to the air intake for the carb? would that just be totally insane? or would it give some decent power gains... i've been reading about forced induction and whatnot, and i thought, why not! of course you would have to filter out debris and water right at the opening of the hood, but man... that would be cool... is this possible? or just a dream, or perhaps too much hassle lol
Air intake
- Thread starter Burfy
- Start date
AMY
Official MSC Trader
Some motorbikes use a similar idea. Suzuki have a system called srad or suzuki ram air direct. I have also seen the same setup on some cars, mainly old american cars. I read an article on someone who fitted a large scoop to a Honda I think it created something like 1/2 psi at 90mph or something along those lines. So yes I guess there could be some slight gains but nothing significant. the hardest part would be plumbing an air tight seal between the bonnet and carb.
I'm a pretty crafty guy, plus I have plenty of tools and goodies.... sealing and plumbing wouldn't be a problem... the only problem would be creating the the scoop in the hood... and of course designing it in such a way that I can lift my hood up without ripping it off lol and not only that, I'm scared of water and junk flowing through and demolishing my engine.
i would have 2 filters, one at the opening in the hood and one for the carb... the only problem is, what if wanna open the hood lol... the hood swings towards the front, which would ruin my tubing...i guess some sort of mechanism to seperate the tubing from the hood eh? the other concern i have with it is water going into my carb... how could i drain that without losing pressure... or would the filter catch all of it?
just another thought, if i were to have the tubing from the NACA duct like an inch short of where i would hook it onto the carb, that would allow possible water to drip before it reached the carb no? and another thought again would be to put a strip across the width about an inch long that'll allow water to seep through, but won't let air escape easily... sry, i'm rambling on... gimme your thoughts eh?
just another thought, if i were to have the tubing from the NACA duct like an inch short of where i would hook it onto the carb, that would allow possible water to drip before it reached the carb no? and another thought again would be to put a strip across the width about an inch long that'll allow water to seep through, but won't let air escape easily... sry, i'm rambling on... gimme your thoughts eh?
K10
Ex. Club Member
sounds like a lot of work to me, i'd leave it! 
only kiddin.
The NACA duct does not have to be clipped to hosing, it can be just cut into the bonnet and left as is, it will direct air into your intake. The intake can be sealed to the bonnet in the closed position, but bolted to the carb, so when you open the bonnet it stays in situ- well thats what I thought you meant anyway!
As for the water issue thats a tricky one, wouldnt know a simple fix for that
only kiddin.
The NACA duct does not have to be clipped to hosing, it can be just cut into the bonnet and left as is, it will direct air into your intake. The intake can be sealed to the bonnet in the closed position, but bolted to the carb, so when you open the bonnet it stays in situ- well thats what I thought you meant anyway!
As for the water issue thats a tricky one, wouldnt know a simple fix for that
ok, so i can just let the tubing sit at the opening... but that damned water.... i need to get something that'll collect it and dispose of it eh? like i would want to put a hole in the bottom but that might rob some of the air... i'm sure i'll rig something up... or perhaps NACA ducts aren't meant to be directly fed to a carb hehe
Wouldnt bother to be honest. This will only work on bulky high performance engines, very complex, engine needs to be balanced in many areas, as you alter one thing another will need tuning, knock on effect. As you increase the amount of air being forced into the engine you need to also consider the amount of fuel going in, as the fuel/air ratio needs to be fairly constant. Also the engine would probably cut out at higher speeds as it simply wont be able to handle it, possibly blow. Good idea tho
bobsp16
Site Supporter
i wouldn't call it force air induction but more like a cold air feed in which would make a little difference as cold air is dencer than hot.i used to do this on my race car and it did make a noticable difference.
you dont have to cut a hole in the bonnet just pipe to the front behind the grill or the easyest way would be just hacksaw off the summer and winter flap device that goes over the rocker cover which ends up breathing hot air off the exhaust manifold and just take a pipe that to the front.
if it dont work then £10 for a new filter housing from the scrap yard would put it back to standard.Be better than any k&n pancake filter on the top of your carb they just make it sound better
you dont have to cut a hole in the bonnet just pipe to the front behind the grill or the easyest way would be just hacksaw off the summer and winter flap device that goes over the rocker cover which ends up breathing hot air off the exhaust manifold and just take a pipe that to the front.
if it dont work then £10 for a new filter housing from the scrap yard would put it back to standard.Be better than any k&n pancake filter on the top of your carb they just make it sound better
Antony
Ex. Club Member
lots of universities have tried to prove this theory wrong..
a "ram air" system will not work to any significant gains untill approximately 145mph+
the Kawasaki ZX12R Gains another 22bhp at 185mph than it has at 100mph..... but under that, there was no significant gains.
and thats on a racing engine......
so on your micra... highly unlikely youll notice any difference..
a "ram air" system will not work to any significant gains untill approximately 145mph+
the Kawasaki ZX12R Gains another 22bhp at 185mph than it has at 100mph..... but under that, there was no significant gains.
and thats on a racing engine......
so on your micra... highly unlikely youll notice any difference..
bobsp16
Site Supporter
what plate??? if your offering to the inlet i made it all..
thanks for your input all much appreciated... I figure I'm just going to run some piping to a better area to catch colder air (instead of it sucking in the air that circulates around the rad) but I won't be doing it until summer, so I have plenty of scheming time hehe.
much appreciated... I figure I'm just going to run some piping to a better area to catch colder air (instead of it sucking in the air that circulates around the rad) but I won't be doing it until summer, so I have plenty of scheming time hehe.
paul_k10_Lx
Deactivated Account
that's brilliant man! that's basically what I wanted to do with mine, only...i don't wanna take the round part off of the top of my carb throat lol... cause i just bought a k&n filter to fit there and I'd rather use that filter if i can... so basically i can use the same duct work as what you have setup, only without the filter at the tip eh? that would still work right?
deano123456
Ex. Club Member
where could i make or get a pipe like dat for mine
what he said! :blush: i was thinking of making the opening of the pipe towards the front of the car and have it bend up and over the engine instead though.
Antony
Ex. Club Member
from halfords..... seriously, we are a dealer of "silicon hoses.com" products wich included every type of tube and pipe you can think of and theyre cheap too.... im getting some....thats in blue but if you want them in red i can get them from BMC (worlds most succesfull racing filter manufacturer) in red and alu- in any size and shape you want...
deano123456
Ex. Club Member
aint being stupid but could any one give me the sizes of wat id need for the thing as speedles like the size and bend of the blue pipe and the size and bend of the silver one i mean size as in the size inside the pipe for connecting on to the throttle body
paul_k10_Lx
Deactivated Account
you will find it very hard ducting like that to a standard carb as there is no lip to clamp the hose to. mat's one was made for a weber which has a lip.
Speedle
Ex. Club Member
i think i still have the pipe ill check for it later today, it will need a piece of blue hosing and a filter again but im happy to part with it, it was custom made at the time for £110 iirc pricey but it was worth it
obv i wont want that much for it £20 plus postage i guess or im happy to measure it up and share the details
it will clamp to the standard carb mate, i did try it once and it seem quite secure
Andrew
Club Member
We made a crude ram-air intake from the ST bonnet and a sheet of ally. A piece of flexible host connected it to the top of the Weber carb. We didn't bother with a filter at all. It didn't seem to make any appreciable difference, except to make the car louder.
We'd also removed the choke flap and spider in carb throat to reduce any restriction.
We'd also removed the choke flap and spider in carb throat to reduce any restriction.
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paul_k10_Lx
Deactivated Account
paul_k10_Lx
Deactivated Account
it just looks like the flow to the neck could have been alot better by building a scoop down at the back and conicling it into the neck
Andrew
Club Member
All you'll get in is rainwater which has to make it's way up inside the scoop, round a pipe and then into the engine. You really need a lot of water to cause hydraulic lock, several hundred cc per second, to cause any problems. This is of course unless you ford rivers...
Nonetheless, it was just trying out an idea, and I think it proved that it didn't make any difference whatsoever.
It didn't seem worth making the neck any more complex. There really isn't much room in that part of the engine bay below the bonnet (surprisingly little, really), and it would have taken a fair while to make anything more complex. Certainly more than the hour or so it took to try this out.
Nonetheless, it was just trying out an idea, and I think it proved that it didn't make any difference whatsoever.
It didn't seem worth making the neck any more complex. There really isn't much room in that part of the engine bay below the bonnet (surprisingly little, really), and it would have taken a fair while to make anything more complex. Certainly more than the hour or so it took to try this out.
paul_k10_Lx
Deactivated Account
to make one like speedles old one
to make one like speedles old one a pipe like this could be used
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=300041681887&rd=1&rd=1
to make one like speedles old one a pipe like this could be used
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI....MEWA:IT&viewitem=&item=300041681887&rd=1&rd=1
that'll help you fellows in the UK, but what about me in Canada :down: I think I just wanna make an off-center scoop and feed a flexible tube to the carb, or just make a scoop front middle and use the stock intake tube already there (well, same place bigger tube)
check out my pitiful diagram lol
check out my pitiful diagram lol
I cant spell or type (bad combination)
Here's a painfull one...
After being inspired by a whole series' of another fellow micra (experimental) nut <you know who you are>. I thought I'd chip in on this one
How about rigging up an experiment like this...using some perspex and thin bendy metal & some glue....
You can play with the size & shape of the splitter untill you get almost all the water into the right bucket. Then if youre left with a crossection (gap between the scoop and the splitter) bigger or equal to the inlet then jobs a good un?
Of course the wind and the rain are vastly simplified and scaled down but the mist should carry well in the blast from the fan....
OK its hair-brain but hey....?
Here's a painfull one...
After being inspired by a whole series' of another fellow micra (experimental) nut <you know who you are>. I thought I'd chip in on this one
How about rigging up an experiment like this...using some perspex and thin bendy metal & some glue....
You can play with the size & shape of the splitter untill you get almost all the water into the right bucket. Then if youre left with a crossection (gap between the scoop and the splitter) bigger or equal to the inlet then jobs a good un?
Of course the wind and the rain are vastly simplified and scaled down but the mist should carry well in the blast from the fan....
OK its hair-brain but hey....?
Attachments
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... ok WOW that helps :grinning: i never thought of routing the water like that... that simplifies things hehe... the longer you made the scoop the less possibility of water going into the carb right? i was also thinking of setting up something similar like a sink drain where it dips down to form a U then stick a drain hole at the bottom, but this seems like a better idea
Andrew
Club Member
Problem with having a U-bend with a drain is you'll lose all the pressure you've built up. You can sort that with a double U-bend though, and keep one of them full of water all of the time. There's loads of designs for devices to keep air in and water out (or at least drain water). I'll see if I have any pics of them.
Antony
Ex. Club Member
small drops of water in the system will not harm the engine...... at all.. it will vaporise long beforeit does any damage.
your thinking too complicated.... simplify...
scoop with fine mesh screen..... water will collect on it..... simple.... if you get a fine enough mesh water droplets will be too small to pass through the holes in the mesh, but air will flow through freely..
im sure theyve thaught of this one before.... but i cant remember what its called... a something filter or an air thingy..lol
your thinking too complicated.... simplify...
scoop with fine mesh screen..... water will collect on it..... simple.... if you get a fine enough mesh water droplets will be too small to pass through the holes in the mesh, but air will flow through freely..
im sure theyve thaught of this one before.... but i cant remember what its called... a something filter or an air thingy..lol
Alright lol... So moving past the water considering we got past that 4 posts ago :wasntme: , how about adjustments that need to be made? If the carb gets too much air at once will it stall or damage the carb or engine? I'm trying to convince my parents that it won't blow up my car lol...
Ok so I took bob's advice and I scrapped the idea of chopping up my bonnet, and running some dryer ducting from the bumper area :laugh: I'll post some pictures soon so everyone can have a good chuckle haha
Even though it may not look professional, I definitely noticed that the engine felt more confident when I was accelerating or when I entered a higher gear...
Even though it may not look professional, I definitely noticed that the engine felt more confident when I was accelerating or when I entered a higher gear...
