K12 Need help

Hi everyone. New guy from sweden. Hope that you can help me. I have 2 Micra K12. Both with problems. We start with Micra 1. It a manuell car and have lot of miles on it. I did get it because the owner did pay me with it for work on a another car. It have had very bad idle for a long time. It had the trottle body changed before in a try to solve the bad idle. I did ask around and the answer i get was replace the timing chain. Before that I did replace both the cam sensor and the crank sensor from the other Micra, but no change in idle. I then change the timing chain and it was bad. The tensior was all the way out. I also replace the the chain guides. Start the engine and the same bad idle, exept that same miss in timing. Did change to new spark plugs again, but same. I take the car on a spin and then after that I did read the foult codeP0011. Then I replace the cam senor to a new that I did buy before. Same bad Idle. Did read about some problen with debri at flywheel. Then I remember that the clucht was newly changed. Check every part of the flywheel but nothing wrong. Did take apart every kable conectors from the cam sensor, crank sensor, the conector behind the batteri and also the conectors to the ECM. I did se some braun stuff in the conector behind the batteri. Put on some 5/56 and clean everything. Start and the same poor idle exept I new foult code P1171. I did discover that the MAP sensor did have some oil on it after the chain change(sorry). Did clean it but same problem. I have forget to say same facts, that after the chain change it run on the higher idle that are then it is cold outside. Before the chain change it had problem to go on the highter idle. Also before the chain change it had no problem to rew up. Now than the P1171 it will miss and after a while it rew up. If I hold it on high rpm(3000) it have no foult code. I take my foot of the gas pedal and it go down and idle but soon it will drop in rpm and the foult lamp will glow. Read the P1171 twice in the foult reader. If I erase it will came back right away. The code P0011 can apear if I rew the enigine high. Try to check the harness but I can not find terminal 51 or 56 on the ECM terminal anywear. Anybody that know how to find it? And are that anyone that have had the same problem that I having? I have also tried to change trottle bodyies from the other Micra and that extra I do have, no change.
Please help if you can. Nissan have give up.

hi tierd, b25 is the intake air temp and b83 is the map sensor
http://www.micra.org.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12592&stc=1&d=1239565022
http://www.micra.org.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12593&stc=1&d=1239565022

Thank´s

That help a lot. Now I can go on in trouble seeking. I have tried to get that in sweden but no one could help me. Thank´s again. I hope that I now can find something. Forget before that I have check the engine. Nothing wrong with head, valves or pistons.

Now, thank´s to Frank I have check the kabel harness. The trouble shouting guide say check MAP sensor. How? Is there anyway that I can mesure it and what should I check for? Does anyone know how?

tierd
http://www.micra.org.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12611&stc=1&d=1239631719

Thank´s again Frank

I understand mesure nr: 1 and 2. But nr: 3 and 4 then the car idle?
I did get a MAP sensor from my Micra nr 2, and replace that one on Micra nr 1. Same again. Did go for a spin and then I came back I had 3 foult code´s. 2xP1171 and one P0011. I will insert a troble guide page that I have follow. At check (6), it´s something about Check Intermittent Incident. What means: Intermittent Incident?





Nissan MICRA K12 without EURO OBD

DTC P1171 Intake Error



Procedure for confirmation of a DTC

Switch off ignition and wait for 10 seconds.

When DTC is displayed and you notice that DTC P1171 has surfaced with DTC P0108

then Trouble Diagnosis for the latter is to be performed first.

Please remember that when you are measuring the input and output voltage,

do not use the ECM ground terminals.



With Consult II Without Consult II

Switch on ignition Switch on ignition, wait for 2 seconds.

Choose Data Monitor mode. Switch off ignition, wait for 10 seconds, switch on again.

Start, idle engine for 5 seconds. With ECM do Diagnostic Test mode II, Self Diag Results

DTC > Diagnostic Procedure. DTC > Diagnostic Procedure.



Procedure for Diagnosis



Check the following:

1.Intake air leak

Put your ear behind the air cleaner element and listen for an intake air leak.

OK: proceed to the next step. NG: repair / replace.



1. Vacuum Hose

Look for any clogging or disconnection in the intake vacuum hoses.

OK: proceed to the next step. NG: repair / replace.



3. Power Supply Circuit of the Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) Sensor

Switch off ignition.

Disconnect the harness connector to the MAP sensor.

Switch on ignition.

Between MAP sensor terminal 2 and ground, check voltage (approx 5V).

OK: proceed to the next step. NG: repair harness / connectors.



4. For open/short in the ground circuit of the MAP Sensor

Switch off ignition.

Between MAP sensor terminal 4 and ECM terminal 56, check harness continuity.

There should be continuity.

For short to ground & power, check harness.

OK: proceed to the next step. NG: repair harness /connectors.



5. For open/short in the input signal circuit of the MAP Sensor

Between Map sensor terminal 1 and ECM terminal 51, check harness continuity.

There should be continuity.

For short to ground & power, check harness.

OK: proceed to the next step. NG: repair harness / connectors.



6. Manifold Absolute Pressure Sensor

OK: check Intermittent Incident. NG: repair / replace.

tierd, why is it not euro obd ? euro has no P1171 eh ! P0011 comes up as cam sensor so, are you sure the chain is timed correctly and the inlet vari-valve mechanism not damaged (easily broken, apparently)
http://www.micra.org.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=12613&stc=1&d=1239646069

Thank´s again Frank

Why, that was the only trouble guide I find. I have a Euro OBD reader and I had not in the chart about the foult code P1171 there. That why I was seeking for it on the internet and find that trouble guide. I are sure that the chain is on the marks then I put it together. I hope that it could not jump before the oil presure fill the tensioner(should not say never). But if I think logical. It run nice. Start right away and go almost nice at the higher rpm then its cold. But I have never heard before about the inlet vari-valve mechanism. No one has talk about that. No one at Nissan work shop has talk about it. Can you give me some fact and is it repairable or must buy new? That could be something that the car has problem at idle. I have pump money in that car.

tierd, the CR engines have V-TEC on the inlet cam dont they ? and i read somewhere that the mech on the end of the cam is easily broken

V-tec

Yes it has that. Can you give me a hint where I can red about it. I have not ever heard about it can be broken but the more I think about it. It fits. Can get the answer for everything that´s not working with this car. Thank´s for the tips.

Has been at Nissan work shop.

No one has ever heard about problem with the vari-valve mechanism. They use consult 11 reader at the work shop. They wanted me to check for ground problem and also batteripowerloss. I asked how I detect the batteripowerlosing. They did not know. The batteri is almost new and I have helped other to jumpstart their cars. I asked also for a shart how the vari-valve is build. They did not have. Frank, I will follow your advice and take the vari-valve apart this weekend. Learning by doing. I read about the Lamba in a other post. Think I check them too.

Tear down again

No we tear it apart again. The goal today is to exam the vari-valve and check markings. First of all. The marking in the cams was okay. Need some hot coffe before check the crank markings.

yes, keep us posted tierd (with pics, so i can see if the vtec will fit mine )

Pics.

How do I download pics. Have take pics but have no ideá how to show them. Need help.

tierd, i always click on the "paperclip" symbol (manage attachments), then upload, then copy/paste

Don´t find the paperclip

Have take everything apart. Find why about the paper clip. I`ts say that I may not post attachement. Sorry. I did take a lot of pics.:blues:

Rapport

Last weekend I get to work. Started to recheck the timing marks on the chain. Was right. Tried to check the mark on the crank but after taking down the lowest part of the oilpan. I relise that I could not see if I not take the front cover and the reat of the oilpan of. So I let it be. I had done some marks before at the cams and they was also right. Started to take the vari-valve apart. Intresting part. First I belive it was a Torx with a holi inside but then I descover that it was 5 edges on the bolt. Torx has 6. Went to my work and did do a tool. Take the vari-valve apart. Did not find anything wrong. Some old #### but nothing wrong with seals or looking pin. Clean everything and re assambly it again. Did go thrue the valve sensor(sitting in the valve cover) that open and close the oil pressure for the vari-valve unit. Nothing wrong there. Clean and put everything back. Check everything twice if I forgot anything. Did go thrue every ground kabels in the engine bay. Check so it was realy grounded. Started first without conecting the sensor for the vari-valve. Nowing that it will not move from the looking pin in the vari-valve so the cam would be still. Same problem, same foult codes exept that I also did get P1111. The Vari-valve sensor. I did conect the senor again and P 1111 did go away but the rest was still there. Did get mad. Deside that I take the car to my work so I can start work with my other Micra. Nr2. At thursday I drove to work. It is about 45 minuts away. I let the car´s rpm never go belowe 1500 and lamp lights up on the dashbord. Then I was at my work parking I did do a reading. Still holding the car over 1500rpm. Only foult code was P0011, nothing else. Let my foot of the gas pedel and...It was working. Smoth Idle, no missing or shaking. Rew it up and let it go down, still perfekt idle. Turn the engine of and go inside to my work. Glad, did phone the swedish state test and get a time.(must do that every year to have the car legal to drive. Friday morning I go to the test and still run the car over 1500rpm. At the station there they teast the car I let the rpm drop. Started to go badly again. The engine lamp light up and bad idle again. Did read the codes and Yes P1171X2 and the P0011 was there again. Drop the time and went back to my work.(nowing that it was no use to test the car with that foult). Leave it at my work parking and it still is there. Thinking that somewhere in the kabels is something wrong. The night betwine thursday and friday it was very wet outside. Can not see the car for a long time.
Did go and get my other problem Micra home. Micra nr2. Both Micra´s is late 2003 December, same enginecode. Micra nr1 is a manuell and Micra nr2 is a automatic.

The problem with Micra nr is starting. It fire right away and you must floor the gas pedel so it rews up, then it work fine. Idle perfekt, run fine, no problem. If you miss to floor the gas pedel or not do anything it will die right away. If you still try to start it it will give 2 puffs after a while and no more. Starting gas, no reaction. The tips that I have get from Nissan is that recode the starting key. It has a keyless, you just put the key near the panel. Micra 2 can also have a bad timing chain but has not run far(get P0340 but has change the sensor). And I have not had time to check, because the other Micra has taking my time. Is there only Nissan that can recode the key or is there someway else? Or is there anyone with this problem that knows? I have also have this car at 2 car electricts and they has not find anything wrong. That was before the tips about the keycode. Glad for tips.

Movie Mov00103

Put up a movie on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrWD839e944

Hope that it can sheer some light...

it,s beyond me tierd , you could give the ilexa forum a try
http://www.ilexa.co.uk/forum/index.php?board=31.0

Movie Mov00104

Put up one more movie on you tube..so you can see what reaction the egine has. Did go true the box beside the batteri under the head lamp. Nothing wrong that I could see.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iH3O_58xO6g

Can it be true?

I did meet one ex Nissan mechanic. He did give me an ide´. He had done lot of work on Almera. He said that sometimes you need to put the car to Nissan computer. Because the car computer do not understand that new parts are on the car. That you sometimes must reclibrate the car, to get it to work. Can that be true? Someone has the same input?

Did phone Nissan work shop. Ask for reprogram ECU. The head shop mecanic said. I must replace the IPDM box. He said that under all the time they has work on Micra they has have one case that need replace that. I wounder, IPDM box? Should be the box under the head lamp. Why should that be wrong? It works then it´s cold and warm, just not on the idle. Someone?

Forget to tell: The IPDM box was not cheap. About 7000-8000kr. (swedish money)

Hi Tierd,
I hope that you have the Electronics Service Manual - Nissan Micra K12 that is around 300MB of pdf file information.
There I can see that IPDM box is the white box under the left hand side headlight.
In this manual, the IPDM functions are described as follows:

//QUOTE
SYSTEMS CONTROLLED BY IPDM E/R
1. Lamp control
Using the CAN communication line, it receives signals from BCM and controls following lamps:
– Headlamps (Hi, Lo)
– Parking lamps, tail lamps and license plate lamp
– Front fog lamps
2. Front wiper control
Using the CAN communication line, it receives signals from BCM and controls front wiper.
3. Headlamp washer control
Using the CAN communication line, it receives signals from BCM and controls headlamp washer.
4. Rear window defogger control
Using the CAN communication line, it receives signals from BCM and controls rear window defogger.
5. A/C compressor control
Using the CAN communication line, it receives signals from ECM and controls A/C compressor.
6. Cooling fan control
Using the CAN communication line, it receives signals from ECM and controls cooling fan.
//END QUOTE

That's a basic description of the things that IPDM is responsible.
I don't see how the IPDM E/R (INTELLIGENT POWER DISTRIBUTION MODULE ENGINE ROOM) could be responsible for your problems with the Micra.

P.S on other hand, while I continued reading, I found:
//QUOTE
IPDM E/R integrated control circuit performs ON-OFF control of the relay and transmission of various signals
(oil pressure switch, park/neutral position switch, reverse switch) through CAN communication with
BCM and ECM
//END QUOTE
So maybe when Nissan say change the IPDM, then maybe you should try and listen to them or Exchange IPDMs of your second Micra. I don't know.

That was a good advice. Just one thing. If I try exchange the box with the other Micra. No problem with Key code? Is the Key code sit in the ECU?

Update

Some one did steal the car. It was gone from the work parking. I say Yes, but I can not understand how. I think the car have some start protecting device. How could the car get stolen? I have the key

Update: The car was find with a Key in the ignition. Did phone the old owner. She say that she had left a key in the car, saying that is was broken. The key did not open the doors, that why she said it was broken. And she did not tell me about it. So then the break in to the car by smasching the side window, probebly they find the key and could drive of. And then the car starts akting wierd, it get dumpt. And beacuse the key was in, the the insurings say I must pay 7500kr for the break in. That car has just been a pain in my butt. Must get a real brake from it. Think it,s banned...

Update: Yesterday. To clear my head, I did start with the other Micra. Go out (are in the garage at home) and try to start it. No batteri power. Jump start it and right on the money floor the gaspedel so it will rew up, sucess. It run. Did drive it for some kilometers and come back home. Change place int the garage so I could charge the batteri. Park it and let it run on idle. Let it run for some minits, then it just died. Try to start it but the batteri was still to low. Today go out and first check for fault codes. 9 of them. Some of them was twice. P1229, P2122, P0107, P2138, and P0340. Erase them but still P1229, P0107, P2122, and P2138 was there. Try to start it, it fires but missed to floor it right so we try tomorrow. You have just one try. I is on my way to recode the starting key. Keyless.

Hi Tierd, Its a long shot, but did you ever get to the bottom of this rough idle issue with the K12 micra, I have exactly the same issue, the garage have tried everything that would normally be associated with this, timing chain replaced, throttle body replaced, all sensors replaced, Airbox replaced, spark plugs replaced, still idleing rough and cutting out when warm,.. PLEASEEEEEEE HEEEEEEELLLPPPP somebody...

ECM needs reprogramming maybe..???

An issue with the Immobiliser / Key..??

what the Hell, even local Nissan dealer having spent 2 hours on it could not solve..!!!